Sunday, November 2, 2008

Paul Washer: 10 Indictments

Every Sunday I post a sermon for those of you who miss church for whatever reason. Lately I've been posting allot of Paul Washer. Well, this week is no exception. I have  yet another great sermon by my favorite preacher.


This one has made a ton of buzz in the blog world and rightly so. It is called, "10 Indictments" and is directed primarily at the way Church is done today. I hope that all pastors and Church leaders give this message the full 2hrs it deserves.  It will change the way you do Church!



The 10 indictments are as follows:
  1. A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture 
  2. An ignorance of the character and attributes of God
  3. A failure to address man's malady
  4. An ignorance of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of regeneration
  5. An unbiblical gospel presentation and invitation
  6. An ignorance regarding the nature of the Church
  7. A lack of loving and compassionate church discipline
  8. A silence on separation (holiness)
  9. Psychology and sociology have replaced the Scriptures in regards to the family
  10. A departure from the faith and a devotion to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons (1 Timothy 4:1-16)
  11.  
    Sermon Transcript
Other Paul Washer Sermons


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55 comments:

  1. 25 indictments against Paul Washer:
    1) willfully limiting the subjectmatter of Scripture
    2) willfully presenting his own fabricated version of true christianity
    3) willfully bringing himself under a cloak of godliness
    4) willfully closing the book of Revelation and the Prophets
    5) willfully painting the graves of the prophets for his own selfish ends
    6) willfully presenting himself since 2002 with remarks that show Billy Graham
    to be his brother, although Graham is high in the world and an archdeceiver
    7) comparison with the whole of Scripture and the true old paths of the Reformation
    show him to be a cloud without water
    8) connection in the Netherlands to all false christianity has to offer, even with those
    who publicly say calvinism is a complete error
    9) presenting himself in 80.000 newspapers in the Netherlands smiling as though
    the sins of the churches and the land are no problem to him
    10) proclaiming a message of revival that has never come, thereby telling lies in Gods Name.
    11) accepting in the core of his message two contradictive systems of doctrine
    12) denying the witness of the Holy Spirit in the Reformation against THE antichrist in Rome
    13) denying the blood of hunderthousands christian brothers and sisters against THE antichrist in Rome
    14) going around the USA and the world to gain one proselyte that he makes a clone of himself
    15) being silent about the developements in the outside world, only preaching for his own parish
    16) laying burdens on small people, while leaving big names in bibleschools, synods, and gospelmusic
    untouched and unmentioned
    17) connecting himself to Kirk Cameron, know throughout the world for the message of a future antichrist
    with Left Behind
    18) himself not being able to go to Wallmart for fear of sinning, yet laying on big burdens on everyone else
    19) printing his own material as though it is manna from heaven, yet is only copying a little text everyone
    knows with some questions
    20) saying he serves the God of heaven, yet he himself is an idolater of the ring on his own finger
    21) his minister is Jeff Nobblit who teaches a future antichrist, that gain is godliness, and remains in the
    SBC although a complete apostate body with a statue for Billy Graham
    22) closing the Kingdom of God for the people by keeping silent about the true contents of the witness of the old paths
    23) denying the true witness of the Waldenses, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters
    24) denying the true witness of Augustine against Pelagius, Luther against Rome, the Westminster and Dordt Synods
    25) being a facilitator and manipulator replacing the true religion of the King Jesus Christ with a false one of the new world order

    ReplyDelete
  2. I guess I shouldn't be so surprised by the negetive comments on the 10 Indictments given by Paul Washer. I'm praying that churches will heed it's call. I believe the people who are offended by Paul's message need to possible examine themselves in light of scripture. Everything he said can be backed up.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I posted this over at Sermonindex in response, but I might as well post it here also.

    Honestly, reading through these 25 indictments... the first thing that pops into my head is, 'If Paul Washer isn't preaching true biblical Christianity, who is?!'

    I'll respond to them one at a time, although I don't personally think that Paul would need to give this guy the time of day, the writer seems more interested in cutting people down than helping them onto the correct path.

    1) willfully limiting the subjectmatter of Scripture
    A. In what way does Paul Washer limit the subject matter of scripture? I have heard him preach from the Old Testament to the New Testament, from Abraham to Revelations. Please be specific.

    2) willfully presenting his own fabricated version of true christianity
    A. While listening to Paul Washer preach, I can check my bible to see if it corresponds with what he is preaching -for the most part I find that what Paul Washer preaches is in harmony with the Word of God. Again, please be specific.

    3) willfully bringing himself under a cloak of godliness
    A. He has made the claim in his testimony, maybe not in so many words, that his time as a missionary in Peru had a sanctifying effect on him, he also points to a dorm room experience of crying out to God that helped him to see Jesus more clearly. Although, Paul Washer preaches often that he is a sinner, and continues to sin, I do not think that he is claiming a special holiness or godliness -beyond what is promised to the believer in scripture. Again, please be specific -you know, Martin Luther was specific!

    4) willfully closing the book of Revelation and the Prophets
    A. The book of revelations says that is profitable for anyone to read the book and meditate on its contents... it does not say that we are supposed to conjecture upon their meanings, nor create complex eschatology or 'Left Behind' books. I think that Paul Washer is right in taking the emphasis off of what is only conjecture and putting it on the Gospel, the work of Christ on the cross of Calvary. Mr. Washer said we will know on that last day, everything there is to know about the last day, but we will spend all Eternity trying to fully comprehend what Jesus did on Calvary and never fully know all that he did for us -that is a beautiful picture of heaven, and in keeping with Scripture.

    5) willfully painting the graves of the prophets for his own selfish ends
    A. We are talking about the same Paul Washer aren't we?

    6) willfully presenting himself since 2002 with remarks that show Billy Graham to be his brother, although Graham is high in the world and an archdeceiver
    A. I have never been a big fan of Billy Graham, although I was listening to a sermon by him to some missionary candidates given in the 1960's and boy was it on fire! Whether or not Billy Graham is saved or not is an issue of wheat and chaff, leave it up to the angels -but I believe that he has demonstrated more than enough fruit for me as a believer to trust in his testimony. I really wonder where you get off being the judge of people's salvation, is that your job?

    7) comparison with the whole of Scripture and the true old paths of the Reformation show him to be a cloud without water
    A. Again, specifics... what did the Church Fathers and Reformers and Puritans say that would clearly demonstrate Paul Washer to be nothing more than a false prophet, a 'cloud without water?'

    8) connection in the Netherlands to all false christianity has to offer, even with those who publicly say calvinism is a complete error
    A. Again, I'm not sure what you're talking about... who was he associated with in the Netherlands, what was their false doctrine?

    9) presenting himself in 80.000 newspapers in the Netherlands smiling as though the sins of the churches and the land are no problem to him
    A. There are scriptures in Timothy that say a deacon should be above reproach, and have a strong reputation in the community. As Christians we are going to face persecution for our beliefs, but at the same time, other should regard us as stalwart and noble for the same beliefs. Keith Green once said that when Christians were called to suffer persecution, it wasn't a call to be obnoxious.

    10) proclaiming a message of revival that has never come, thereby telling lies in Gods Name.
    A. Wow, wait, huh! Are you discounting all revivals in history, or the concept of revivals, or just the type of revival that Paul Washer is preaching about? What does the bible have to say about revivals? Are they biblical?

    11) accepting in the core of his message two contradictive systems of doctrine
    A. Again, please be specific, which doctrines and how are they contradictory?

    12) denying the witness of the Holy Spirit in the Reformation against THE antichrist in Rome
    A. You'll have to point me to this one in Paul's Preaching, don't know where you're getting it. As far as I've heard, Paul comes down pretty hard on Catholic teachings as being false doctrine.

    13) denying the blood of hunderthousands christian brothers and sisters against THE antichrist in Rome
    A. According to your eschatology Rome is the AntiChrist, but the way I read it, it could very easily be that the United States is Babylon. Frankly speaking, the book of Revelations isn't so clear on the topic. As far as martyrs go, I haven't ever heard him dismiss their testimonies -you're going to have to point me to some youtube video on this one.

    14) going around the USA and the world to gain one proselyte that he makes a clone of himself
    A. You know, Paul Washer preaches out of the bible, if anything he wants to get young men and women into the Word of God... sometimes he says things which at face value may seem legalistic, but he is usually saying them in the context of scripture. He preaches on salvation through grace by faith... not exactly a modern day pharisee -there are plenty of more Pharisaical preachers out there whom you could pick on, you may want to take a look in the mirror.

    15) being silent about the developements in the outside world, only preaching for his own parish
    A. We are talking about Paul Washer, missionary to Peru for a decade, and founder of HeartCry Missionary Society? Plus you spelled developments incorrectly.

    16) laying burdens on small people, while leaving big names in bibleschools, synods, and gospelmusic untouched and unmentioned
    A. So what you are doing is saying that the sin of a bible college is inherintly more sinful than the sin of a 'nobody' small person. Please remind me what John the Baptist's message was? Repent! Who was he saying it to? A lot of times, the small people... Jesus didn't go out of his way to preach against the pharisees, but when they attacked him, they made themselves easy targets. Again, this shows your agenda, but not God's! If you want to preach against the evils of these institutions, which I am sure you are doing, feel free, but don't expect the same of others -because they may actually be reading their bibles. "And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?' How did Jesus respond? "But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." (Luke 9:54-55)

    17) connecting himself to Kirk Cameron, know throughout the world for the message of a future antichrist with Left Behind
    A. For someone with an obvious interest in eschatology, you seem to be taking pretty broad swipes here. I guess you're only really interested in your own interpretation of the end times. I myself have never read Left Behind, nor do I intend to waste my time doing so, but I believe Kirk Cameron to be a honest and earnest Evangelist, even if he has gotten himself entangled with the Left Behind garbage.

    18) himself not being able to go to Wallmart for fear of sinning, yet laying on big burdens on everyone else
    A. Spelled Walmart wrong. I think it shows ignorance on your part if you believe that Walmart can offer such low prices without hurting someone in the supply chain. Either they are exploiting the people at the supply end, or during manufacturing, or our local economies... everyone suffers from Walmart. Walmart is not a Christian institution, they are a business, and as such, they have a bottom line. Walmart's bottom line is not to help people, it is to make money! If you do any reading on the subject, you will be more wary of what you purchase from big box stores. I didn't know that Paul Washer was anti-Walmart, but knowing that he was a missionary in a poor country like Peru, it makes sense. Walmart hurts poor people, not just abroad, but also here in the states.

    19) printing his own material as though it is manna from heaven, yet is only copying a little text everyone knows with some questions.
    A. I got a couple issues of the HeartCry newsletter, they were ok, nothing to write home about. I think this is a standard practice for most ministries. As far as I know Paul Washer hasn't written any books yet. If you want to take aim at some people who should be roasted over the coals for their 'printing' of materials that are contrary to the Gospel, you could always take aim at Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, TD Jakes, Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland etc.

    20) saying he serves the God of heaven, yet he himself is an idolater of the ring on his own finger
    A. Wow, attacking anyone that wears a wedding ring as an idol worshiper. Anyone else on this forum wear a wedding ring? I don't (yet), but I don't think it is an idol any more than any other object or possession can become an idol to a person -I believe that there is scripture that says that the antichrist will forbid people to marry. Just something for an the eschatology inclined to consider.

    21) his minister is Jeff Nobblit who teaches a future antichrist, that gain is godliness, and remains in the SBC although a complete apostate body with a statue for Billy Graham
    A. This guy doesn't like the SBC or Billy Graham, so guilt by association. Even if there are plenty of bible centered, Christ focused Southern Baptist Churches... and if you had actually listened to Mr. Washer preach, you'd realize that he is usually preaching against problems within the Southern Baptist denomination. As for Jeff, I've only heard one of his sermons (the one about dogs, if you know which one I'm referring to), but it was a wonderful sermon with a clear Gospel presentation.

    22) closing the Kingdom of God for the people by keeping silent about the true contents of the witness of the old paths
    A. Are you talking about Old Path's Magazine, the one that Greg Gordon puts out? I'm just kidding... can you PLEASE BE MORE SPECIFIC!

    23) denying the true witness of the Waldenses, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters
    A. You know, most of the people that you listed had strong disagreements with each other. You probably couldn't get an English puritan, a Scottish covenanter and a German reformer in the same room without some kind of fist fight over doctrine. These people didn't agree, I bet they wouldn't agree with you either. Although I do like some Puritan theology, and the works of the reformers -no one's theology is perfect, I have yet to find any person in history who had an exclusive claim on inerrancy except the Lord Jesus Christ.

    24) denying the true witness of Augustine against Pelagius, Luther against Rome, the Westminster and Dordt Synods
    A. So you're a reformed guy... wait, Paul Washer is a reformed guy too... @_@ i'm so confused! Want to flush this out some more so I can understand?

    25) being a facilitator and manipulator replacing the true religion of the King Jesus Christ with a false one of the new world order
    A. New World Order? Are you a conspiracy theorist too? Oh no... I've been trolled. -_- I fail.

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  4. Ian Smith,
    Glad you took the time out to answer this guys objection. I found your response very good. I wonder how many places "reformatienl" pasted this diatribe.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hello Ian Smith, my reply with @@, thank you for your response, it gives me a change to defend and explain my position, Kind regards, Dennis.

    You wrote:
    I posted this over at Sermonindex in response, but I might as well post it here also.
    @@ Before I start responding, I would like to paint the bigger picture.
    1. The 10 indictments brought forward by Mr. Washer are the fruits of yearlong going to church, praying (for revival), much evangelising all over the USA, thousands of sermons/ books/ articles/ biblestudies, uttering good intentions, singing in worship, pastoral care by ministers and elders. According to the 10 indictment after all that work the people still do not know God, do not know the Gospel, have bad churchdiscipline, lack teaching on holiness, the church, and practically deny the suffiency of Scripture.
    2. The churches of the 10 indictments range from evangelical, to Lutheran, to baptist, to reformed, to presbyterian. Thousands of ministers, elders, pastoral workers, youthworkers, small groups, writers, professors, Phd's in theology, students in theology, and worshipleaders. According to the 10 indictments after all that work the people still do not know God, do not know the Gospel, have bad churchdiscipline, lack teaching on holiness, the church, and practically deny the suffiency of Scripture.
    3. The so called christianity in the USA is known throughout the world for its hypocrisy, its commercially seeking a profit with christianity, and the people of the USA have indicated that they also have enough of it by choosing the liberal democrat Obama as the follow-up of the 'evangelical' Bush.
    4. The last years I read media on the fruits of christianity in the USA in which the same signs appear as in the Netherlands. Churchattendance dropping, churchattendance getting older and older, churches cannot keep their youth, practical living of those who call themselves christians differs little to nothing with those who are not christians, ignorance of true christianity in doctrine and life rising through the generations, and leadership who do everything to keep the people in in order to keep their monthly paycheck.
    5. In April of this year pope Benedict XVI paid a visit to the USA, and was welcomed with a great feast at the White House by your president Bush and his wife, and more than thousand mostly high level guests. He had meetings with representatives of all other religions, and with those representing the National Council of Churches in the USA, the Lutherans, the pentecostals, the NAE, and some reformed and presbyterians. On the other hand Alex Jones does NOT talk about the influence of the Vatican, but has on its site links to either calling the Vatican back to the situation before Vatican Council II, or calling calvinists and evangelicals with very bad names.
    6. In the USA there are 160.000.000 people who are linked to some kind of church. 67.000.000 of them are roman-catholic.
    7. Remarkable fact is that althought the pope of Rome has visited in April as a 'minister of the Gospel' (seen on television across the USA), 67 million in the USA are roman-catholic, publicly well known figures in evangelical, reformed, and presbyterian circles PUBLICLY either turn to Rome by giving the pope a welcome as a brother, or deny the doctrine of the papal antichrist and teach a future antichrist. This concerns men like the contemporary reformers of monergism (for example Packer, Mohler, MacArthur, Sproul, Piper...), Dr Beeke and Dr. David Murray, and Mr. Nobblit of Muscle Scoals.
    8. Also a remarkable fact is that both the New Geneva Bible edited by Sproul and Packer, the ESV, and the commentary by MacArthur, do NOT teach that the pope of Rome is THE antichrist as the reformers, the puritans, the covenanters, and a brother like Spurgeon taught.
    9. Although Dr. Packer has remained an anglican priest in the Anglican Church openly going back to Rome, being an editor of Christianity Today with links to Billy Graham, being one of the main speakers at Amsterdam 2000 organised by Billy Graham, signer of ECT 1994, promotor of the new age group Renovare and new age bible The Message, he still is considered by monergism as a contemporary reformer and is the main recommendation of the last book Dr. Beeke wrote on the puritans.
    10. The last 20 years all kinds of churches have come together in the USA in ecumenical bodies like the national council of churches, and big names have come together in documents like those of ECT, evangelicals and catholics together.
    11. Mr. Washer's fame came with his shocking youth message in which he publicly makes remarks by which one can conclude he considers Billy Graham his brother. The same Billy Graham that asked Bill Clinton at his last crusade to the stage as his friend, this while the shocking youthmessage by which Mr. Washer has promoted his work until now talks about holiness.
    12. Mr. Washer is connected to Grace Life Church in Muscle Scoals (formerly First Baptist) of Mr. Nobblit. This church has for years remained a part of the SBC, which nowadays is known for its apostacy and arminianism. With also a statue put up by the SBC to commemorate Billy Graham. Mr. Nobblit has PUBLICLY put out messages on Revelation in which he teaches a future antichrist. Mr. Washer knows this.
    13. Mr. Washer regularly has connected himself (in 2008 Deeper conference) with Way of the Master where Kirk Cameron is one of the main hosts. Kirk is known throughout the world as THE actor of the films Left Behind, made in relation to the USA-bestsellerbooks of Left Behind that also teach a future antichrist. Mr. Washer must know this.
    14. In the Netherlands during a tour in May June 2008 Mr. Washer has connected himself to Heartcry.nl of Arjan Baan. Heartcry.nl retains in itself the witness that calvinism is an error and Luther a heretic, and keep on inviting arminian teachers to their conferences and evenings. Heartcry.nl is connected to reformed youthnights where a future antichrist is taught, all winds of teaching is brought with teachers from all false superficial christianity has to offer in the Netherlands, and where one of their greatest teachers teaches that repentance is of man, and rebirth of God. Where also one of the experts of their circles has said that in their midst the most prideful men can be found. Circles PUBLICLY know for their materialism, worldliness, and ignorance of Scriptures. Mr. Washer has presented himself PUBLICLY in 80.000 newspapers smiling as their brother.
    15. In the Netherlands churches are running empty, evangelising does not bare fruit, the churches do not reach anyone according to experts, ecumenical bodies are formed in order to further union with Rome, and this false church (of which Heartcry.nl is an integral and accepted part) is fully part of the world in state, business, schools, and apostate churches. Just a small example: the coming year the evangelical broadcosting company will start bringing programs on death, and for the second time bring publicly the program '40 days without sex' wherin sexcrazed youth will try to remain without sex for 40 days. Amidst of all of this Mr. Washer brings the same message on decisionism, holiness, and marriage as he has done in the USA since 2002 until now.
    16. In the last years in the Netherlands good books on true christianity in doctrine and life have left the lives of those in the churches. Evangelical and reformed bookstores now make their biggest profits selling novels and cards, seeing no market anymore for good books on true christianity.
    17. Mr. Washer has made a remark in his 10 indictment message that in Holland he saw signs of a beginning awakening, this because he saw 1000 young people cry out to God at his Heartcry.nl tour. When one would look at the subjects of the program of Heartcry in 2009 one would see that the subjectmatter is just as shallow and untimely as that of 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, with as much power as watching for months the liveservices on Sunday on sermonaudio.com and expecting something that would break the continuing deadness of shallow subjects.
    18. Although the times are changing fast, churches are running empty, people seem to wanna do their own thing, both the so called ministers in the Netherlands as those in the USA (for example those on sermonaudio. Muscle Scoals, and Mr. Washer) continue to bring the same subjects over and over and over again. For example when one looks at the sermons of Dr. Beeke on sermonaudio.com of the last 3 years, one can hardly find a sermon on Revelation, the judgemtal texts in the Prophets, texts on false prophets and false doctrine.
    19. In discussions both in the Netherlands as on sites in the USA I constantly hear the same cry 'dont judge us', 'dont use polemics', 'be nice to one another', 'your tone is unchristian', 'your words are unchristian', while they themselves publicly confess that their churches are no salting salt anymore, as a sign that all that so called christian behaviour is only cursed by God by making their churches more empty of true christianity each year, and taking away even what they think they had.
    20. Although all these signs are seen by everyone in the world in the PUBLIC media, still those in leaderhip continue to NOT clean house first, but keep on evangelising the outside world, and keep on presenting themselves as the true church and having a calling of God. This although the 10 indictments and the PUBLIC articles on the apostacty of THEIR churches, that God does not bless their work.

    @@ It is understandable in order to keep this bad work going to NEVER look at the big picture, but always bring a one on one message. Forgetting that this one on one message can only keep on being continued when the suggestion is held on to that the own parish is full of non-christians and they are the true preachers. By putting out the 10 indictments Mr. Washer has publicly declared himself and his colleagues in the pulpits as bankrupt and not capable of bringing true christianity from the pulpits, blessed by God as it was in the Reformation ! Now they are glad they can have one convert (for example the new Danish reformer), then they changed whole nations with their message ! Rome is not moved by the message of Mr. Washer, that should say enough.

    Honestly, reading through these 25 indictments... the first thing that pops into my head is, 'If Paul Washer isn't preaching true biblical Christianity, who is?!'
    @@ If I live in a country that is desolated, burned to the ground, full of injured and dead bodies because of the war, little to nothing to eat and drink, and I know where I can find food and drink, where I can find the means to build the country again and make it prosper, ....but I keep that information and those means away from the people so that the situation only gets worse....then I bring out a message how worse everything has gotten and present myself as the saviour of the land (always keeping the good means out of sight by saying for example that every little hint to these means must not get our focus off from looking at how bad the situation is and how much we need my message)....then someone finds out that all the time I have been going around as the saviour of the country, I have known where the good means where to be found....what would he say of me ? Would he not say that I am a criminal and a destroyer of souls and bodies ? If you only know the desolate country, you will call me a very well intentioned man, if you know the good means, I would instantly become a very very bad man.

    I'll respond to them one at a time, although I don't personally think that Paul would need to give this guy the time of day,
    @@ You decide for yourself after reading this reply. You should be happy I give you the time of day, and take the time to warn Mr. Washer so that he might repent of his hypocrisy and false teaching.

    the writer seems more interested in cutting people down than helping them onto the correct path.
    @@ You decide again after reading my replies. May I kindly remind you that Mr. Washer has put out the 10 indictments ? Those 10 indictments (if true) indicate that those who were responsible of leading the people to the correct path, have completely failed. So I personally think that I as an individual nobody who points to back to the Scriptures, the reformed confessions, and the best teachers proven to be blessed by Christ, might perhaps receive a better reception than I now receive in your reply.

    1) willfully limiting the subjectmatter of Scripture
    A. In what way does Paul Washer limit the subject matter of scripture? I have heard him preach from the Old Testament to the New Testament, from Abraham to Revelations. Please be specific.

    @@ Let Mr. Washer come forward with sermons on Revelation 8 to 19, reminding you that Revelation is a part of Scripture, and a minister of the Gospel should preach the whole of Scripture ! Let Mr. Washer come forward with sermons on texts on false teachers and false doctrine ! Let him come forward with sermons on texts in the Prophets which speak about a hypocritical nation and church, and the sins of the land ! Let him show he understands the big picture of Scripture, not that he constantly returns to certain subjects, anecdotes, and punchlines on decisionism, holiness, and marriage ! Most important on this point, is that he has to stand the test of proven teachers appointed by Christ in the past in exposition, message, uprightness, application to the times, and effect on the people in life and doctrine ! Mr. Washer is not the measure of Mr. Washer, and his fans are not the measure of what true christianity is and is not, proven true christianity blessed by God is the measure to test Mr. Washer !

    2) willfully presenting his own fabricated version of true christianity
    A. While listening to Paul Washer preach, I can check my bible to see if it corresponds with what he is preaching
    @@ If I go to kindergarten and listen to a little child present a little story about the heavens at night, I can also say that this little story is true, but that does not mean that this little child is telling the whole story of the heavens. The same goes for Mr. Washer. If looked at by himself, having his words only as a guideline, him viewed implicitly as a true teacher, and his public spiritually beneath this man and ignorant about their bibles (apart from what Mr. Washer allows them to be busied with) and churchhistory), Mr. Washer is a great biblical teacher. When viewed in context of the reality of 2008, the context of 2000 years of true christianity, the whole of Scriptures, Mr. Washer is a worthless teacher that should be avoided.

    -for the most part I find that what Paul Washer preaches is in harmony with the Word of God. Again, please be specific.
    @@ Mr. Washer considers the issue of arminiasm and calvinism not important, and also says that he wants to preach the true Gospel. This contradicts eachother completely. Truth is truth, and cannot exist of 2 completely contradicting systems of doctine, namely arminianism and calvinism. Either the Lord Jesus died for all men, or NOT. Either the saints are elected unconditionally, or NOT, Either man is totally depraved, or NOT. Either Grace is irresistable, or NOT. Either the saints persevere, or NOT. To say that getting the truth out on these subjects is not important, is just like a carmechanic saying that knowledge about the inside of a car is not important to him.
    @@ Mr. Washer has said in the Netherlands that when a christian comes to him complaining about a bad heart and loving sin so much, he doubts whether God has done a work in the life of that person. With this statement he completely goes against the apostle Paul in Romans 7, and there are several confessions of eminent brothers in Christ who have confessed the same (for example Bradford, Calvin, Witsius).
    @@ In the 10 indictment message he says that the remnant is the church. Scripture (Revelation 11v1-2) refutes him, churchhistory refutes him (Waldenses and Rome, Luther and Rome, protestants and Rome, books on the situation of the churches the last 400 years showing a corpus permixtum).
    @@ His remarks about the book of Revelation are very very bad in light of the importance it has had in the Reformation, and the use it has (had) for Gods People in all ages to identify the signs of the times and the struggle of the true church against the false.

    3) willfully bringing himself under a cloak of godliness
    A. He has made the claim in his testimony, maybe not in so many words, that his time as a missionary in Peru had a sanctifying effect on him, he also points to a dorm room experience of crying out to God that helped him to see Jesus more clearly. Although, Paul Washer preaches often that he is a sinner, and continues to sin, I do not think that he is claiming a special holiness or godliness -beyond what is promised to the believer in scripture. Again, please be specific -you know, Martin Luther was specific!

    @@ For me it is very simple. If all this is true about Mr. Washer I should find the same life and message in his preaching, as I find in Scriptures, the reformed confessions, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters, and a beloved brother like Spurgeon. As Mr. Washer has big pretentions about himself and his preaching, I expect to be able to make the connection, instead I find complete enmity between these two in life and doctrine. Mr. Washer has an outward look, but it may not go further than that. The true teachers in the Body Christ have taught the whole of Scripture faithfully, NOT bringing their own ideas, views, anecdotes, and judgements over and over and over again, but bringing the Word of God faithfully. I see no difference in depth, in subjectmatter, between the Paul Washer in 2002 in the shocking youth message, and Paul Washer 2008 in the 10 indictments. Again he talks the same lines about decisionism, holiness, and how bad everything is, putting himself forward as the radical guy. This radical guy should measure himself with Scripture and the old paths, NOT with himself, his friends, and those who flatter him.


    4) willfully closing the book of Revelation and the Prophets
    A. The book of revelations says that is profitable for anyone to read the book and meditate on its contents...

    @@ The Lord Jesus Christ says:
    'Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
    Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.'
    @@ If Mr. Washer does everything to prevent him having to say anything on the book of Revelation, he is taking away from this book, and you may conclude from the texts mentioned how blessed this is. Could this be the reason of the fruit of the 10 indictments ? And how would the message a the papal antichrist be received in a mainly roman-catholic country as Peru ?

    it does not say that we are supposed to conjecture upon their meanings, nor create complex eschatology or 'Left Behind' books.
    @@ Sorry, this is nonsense. Faithful commentaries like Matthew Henry, John Gill, Matthew Poole, Albert Barnes, Diodati, Westminster, Dutch annotations, Durham, Elliot, all have written extensively on the whole book of Revelation. The reason the Reformation started was because in Revelation the harlot church of Rome was discovered. As Mr. Washer connects himself to the Left Behind author (future antichrist in opposition to the Reformation), your words concerning Left Behind loose their meaning.

    I think that Paul Washer is right in taking the emphasis off of what is only conjecture and putting it on the Gospel, the work of Christ on the cross of Calvary.
    @@ You exactly copy the words Mr. Washer speaks on this subject, do you have thoughts of your own on this subject ? By using these words Mr.Washer closes the book of Revelation (see Rev 22v18-19) for his fans. This in complete opposition to the way the Body of Christ has read and loved the certain hope and certain future Christ shows to His People. Instead his fans may endlessly think about their own little world inside their hearts in motives and words.
    This is truly very wrong when a so called teacher does that, leaving out Gods Providence in time, and endlessly leaving christians doubt and busy themselves in their own little world forgetting the bigger picture.

    Mr. Washer said we will know on that last day, everything there is to know about the last day, but we will spend all Eternity trying to fully comprehend what Jesus did on Calvary and never fully know all that he did for us -that is a beautiful picture of heaven, and in keeping with Scripture.
    @@ This is in complete opposition to the Reformation and the faithful commentaries I mention, and most of all against the Lord Jesus Christ himself in Rev 22v18-19. This is truly a false reasoning in order to take away truth and hope from Gods People, in order to have himself put in their place. It is priestcraft.

    5) willfully painting the graves of the prophets for his own selfish ends
    A. We are talking about the same Paul Washer aren't we?

    @@ I want to make something very clear. When first reading your reply you talk as if you really are something in responding to this 'guy'. I stand before a little mouse that talks big words, but I can blow everything away with a bazooka mouse and all. It is sad to see that this false teacher puts himself in the place of Christ, then lets his slaves only hear and know what he wants them to know, these slaves start to act as puffed up as he does, and when confronted with facts and true christianity the true nature shows itself, ignorant and puffed up with only a fabrication of a mortal man who thinks himself a god. The pope of Rome also considers himself the servant of servants, yet is the tyrant of tyrants. Friends will leave friends alone. that is why I am not allowed to see the light of day with this message, as I am not a friend but an enemy.

    @@ Again I stand here with a bazooka against a little mouse who has a big mouth but nothing else. I shall give you a test to prove my point.
    Go and listen to the sermons at Muscle Scoals in 2008, and see how many times names from the past are mentioned like Luther and Spurgeon ! If they are mentioned go and study their lives and works, go and read sermons of them on the same topics, and compare them with Washer and Nobblit. I hope you understand that in order to do this impartially your mind and spirit must be free and unbiased, otherwise because of the prejudice and bias regarding Mr. Washer all investigation will not reason out truth, but will even make Mr. Washer a second Luther or even a second apostle Paul. Showing how humble Mr. Washer and his fans really are.

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  6. 6) willfully presenting himself since 2002 with remarks that show Billy Graham to be his brother, although Graham is high in the world and an archdeceiver
    A. I have never been a big fan of Billy Graham, although I was listening to a sermon by him to some missionary candidates given in the 1960's and boy was it on fire!
    @@ The apostacy of Billy Graham has been documented since the 60s in thousands of pages and tens of books. Go and read those ! For Mr. Washer in 2002 to suggest this man to be his brother, is like someone who everywhere says he loves the Lord Jesus Christ, but at the same time says he loves also a denier of Jesus Christ.

    Whether or not Billy Graham is saved or not is an issue of wheat and chaff, leave it up to the angels

    @@ Why do you excuse Billy Graham whose PUBLIC apostacy has been extensively, while you question whether I should be given the time of day seeing that I point to faithful witnesses ?
    Are you mad while at the same time saying you love the Gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ ?

    -but I believe that he has demonstrated more than enough fruit for me as a believer to trust in his testimony.

    @@ Sir, with all due respect, but do you know what you are talking about ? If you even can excuse Billy Graham, who then are the false teachers in this world ? Are Bill Clinton and Bush also christians ?

    I really wonder where you get off being the judge of people's salvation, is that your job?

    @@ With all due respect, Sir, but you should ask Mr. Washer this question as he seems to be able to judge men regenerate and unregenerate.

    7) comparison with the whole of Scripture and the true old paths of the Reformation show him to be a cloud without water
    A. Again, specifics... what did the Church Fathers and Reformers and Puritans say that would clearly demonstrate Paul Washer to be nothing more than a false prophet, a 'cloud without water?'

    @@ Mr. Washer has worked in the missionfield for 20 years fulltime. He has been able to study Scripture fulltime, prepare sermons and biblestudies fulltime, has been all over the USA in churches and bibleschools, and after all those years in 2008 he still brings a shallow message mainly on the topics of decisionism, marriage, and holiness. If you would start reading the reformers, the puritans, and the Church Fathers on being a cloud without water, you would immediately recognize Mr. Washer to be one.

    8) connection in the Netherlands to all false christianity has to offer, even with those who publicly say calvinism is a complete error
    A. Again, I'm not sure what you're talking about... who was he associated with in the Netherlands, what was their false doctrine?

    @@ The director of Heartcry.nl is connected to all that false apostate christianity in evangelical and reformed circles has to offer. He invites arminian preachers, he has a link on his site that says that calvinism is a complete error and Luther a heretic. His translator was and is a regular speaker at THE Dutch megachurch where they teach that man does repentance, God the new birth. I hope I have written clearly enough for you to understand.

    9) presenting himself in 80.000 newspapers in the Netherlands smiling as though the sins of the churches and the land are no problem to him
    A. There are scriptures in Timothy that say a deacon should be above reproach, and have a strong reputation in the community. As Christians we are going to face persecution for our beliefs, but at the same time, other should regard us as stalwart and noble for the same beliefs. Keith Green once said that when Christians were called to suffer persecution, it wasn't a call to be obnoxious.

    @@ First of all I take offence that you use the name of a beloved brother like Keith Green in order to justify Mr. Washer. Secondly if false christianity is trampled by men because it has lost its salt, this is NOT persecution but righteous judgement by God. Thirdly I dont understand what your reply has to do with Mr. Washer presenting himself in 80.000 newspapers as a friend of an apostate organisation linked to superficial false christianity.

    10) proclaiming a message of revival that has never come, thereby telling lies in Gods Name.
    A. Wow, wait, huh! Are you discounting all revivals in history, or the concept of revivals, or just the type of revival that Paul Washer is preaching about? What does the bible have to say about revivals? Are they biblical?

    11) accepting in the core of his message two contradictive systems of doctrine
    A. Again, please be specific, which doctrines and how are they contradictory?

    12) denying the witness of the Holy Spirit in the Reformation against THE antichrist in Rome
    A. You'll have to point me to this one in Paul's Preaching, don't know where you're getting it. As far as I've heard, Paul comes down pretty hard on Catholic teachings as being false doctrine.

    @@ If Paul Washer does not teach the doctrine of the papal antichrist, it is like saying that Nazi Germany was wrong in their clothing and songs, but leaving out the bit that Hitler and his staff were the main evilgeniuses behind it all. In light of the Reformation, the Dark Middle Ages, and the Inquisition, I am really asking myself if you know what you are talking about. Proving again that Mr. Washer does not know what he is talking about. As if someone really condemns the clothing of the Nazis, but when one says that the nazis have already done the Holocaust with millions of Jews dead, saying that we should not look at history because we might be prevented doing our work today, saying at the same time that you expect that Hitler and a Third Reich are still to come.

    13) denying the blood of hunderthousands christian brothers and sisters against THE antichrist in Rome
    A. According to your eschatology Rome is the AntiChrist, but the way I read it, it could very easily be that the United States is Babylon. Frankly speaking, the book of Revelations isn't so clear on the topic.

    @@ I am sorry, Sir, but the reformers, the puritans, the covenanters, and Spurgeon were VERY VERY CLEAR on this topic. So please, Sir, stop making a fool of yourself and show that you have a brain of your own instead of a bad copy of that of Mr. Washer !

    As far as martyrs go, I haven't ever heard him dismiss their testimonies -you're going to have to point me to some youtube video on this one.

    @@ You really do not understand what are the issues here. Nor do you understand what you are talking about. You swallow whole hords of elephants with Mr. Washer, yet straign my reply at a gnat. I truly wonder if I am not throwing pearls before swines. You show in your replies to be a nicely educated Washerclone.

    14) going around the USA and the world to gain one proselyte that he makes a clone of himself
    A. You know, Paul Washer preaches out of the bible, if anything he wants to get young men and women into the Word of God... sometimes he says things which at face value may seem legalistic, but he is usually saying them in the context of scripture. He preaches on salvation through grace by faith... not exactly a modern day pharisee -there are plenty of more Pharisaical preachers out there whom you could pick on, you may want to take a look in the mirror.
    @@ Sir, if I would enter into a discussion on your reply here I would blow the mouse away with a bazooka. This is really pathetic. Are you really so stupid and easily fooled ? Are you so petty minded that you think so low of your neighbour, and must make such petty remarks regarding my person ? My only reply here is that saying hundred times that you preach the Word of God, does not mean that you do. Nor does having oneself flattered in the face as being a 'true minister of the Gospel' make a person so. Are you so dumb and silly that you believe anything your idol says ?

    15) being silent about the developements in the outside world, only preaching for his own parish
    A. We are talking about Paul Washer, missionary to Peru for a decade, and founder of HeartCry Missionary Society? Plus you spelled developments incorrectly.

    @@ Yes, the same one. I will give only one little example as it becomes more and more clear that I am discussing with a Washeridolater who takes into account his person into judgement, not being able to make a free and independent judgment and investigation.
    The USA suffered the last year and now a great creditcrisis, lots of people loosing their jobs, but Mr. Washer keeps on with his decisionism, marriage, and holiness, as if nothing is going on.

    16) laying burdens on small people, while leaving big names in bibleschools, synods, and gospelmusic untouched and unmentioned
    A. So what you are doing is saying that the sin of a bible college is inherintly more sinful than the sin of a 'nobody' small person.

    @@ Yes, as the sin of backsliding and apostacy in a minister is more sinful than that of Mr. Nobody in church. The more responsibility, the more responsible for the sin and backsliding of the people.

    Please remind me what John the Baptist's message was? Repent! Who was he saying it to? A lot of times, the small people...

    @@ Excuse me, but I have to view your replies as one who serves Mr. Washer with his spirit. I can understand this reply as it would mean that Mr. Washer can remain doing what he does, not having to adress the sins of himself and others in ministies around the USA.

    Jesus didn't go out of his way to preach against the pharisees, but when they attacked him, they made themselves easy targets.

    @@ The more you say, the more you contradict yourself, and show you do not know what you are talking about. The Lord Jesus had his biggest problem with the Pharisees, NOT the world. The reformers had their biggest problem with Rome, NOT the world. Paul Washer has his biggest problem with a false church in the USA, or with the world ? If with a false church, where is the persecution from Rome and its harlotdaughters ?

    Again, this shows your agenda, but not God's! If you want to preach against the evils of these institutions, which I am sure you are doing, feel free, but don't expect the same of others -because they may actually be reading their bibles.

    @@ Sir, Mr. Washer has PUBLICLY put out the 10 indictments. One thing they prove, is that many many in the churches are not reading their bibles (including the leadership).
    After investigating in 2008 Mr. Washer, I have written the 25 indictments against him, which for me make it clear that Mr. Washer says he preaches the Bible, says he loves the Bible, but in reality only reads and loves what is good for his own advantage and image amongst ignorant people who will remain ignorant under his ministry.

    "And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?' How did Jesus respond? "But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." (Luke 9:54-55)

    @@ Sir, may I ask you are you a hypocrite ? You do not understand the bigger picture, you straign the gnat, yet you think you can explain and apply Scripture truthfully ? Do you know what manner of spirit you are ? I come to you as a protestant, yet you do not know whether I am worth the time, yet an apostate as Billy Graham is still seen by you as a christian. Are you a papist ?

    17) connecting himself to Kirk Cameron, know throughout the world for the message of a future antichrist with Left Behind
    A. For someone with an obvious interest in eschatology, you seem to be taking pretty broad swipes here. I guess you're only really interested in your own interpretation of the end times.

    @@ You really think that when you speak, you speak the truth ex cathedra. NO I AM NOT INTERESTED IN MY OWN OPININO OF THE ENDTIMES, THAT IS WHY I HAVE STUDIED THE COMMENTARIES BY BARNES, GILL, HENRY, POOLE, DIODATI, DURHAM, WESTMINSTER, ELLIOT, GENEVA AND MANY MORE FAITHFUL PROTESTANT COMMENTARIES ! You until now show you only know the opinion of Mr. Washer, and you accuse me of what you do yourself ! Are you mad ?

    I myself have never read Left Behind, nor do I intend to waste my time doing so, but I believe Kirk Cameron to be a honest and earnest Evangelist, even if he has gotten himself entangled with the Left Behind garbage.

    @@ Kirk Cameron in 2008, 400 years after the Reformation, has gone all over the world with the message of a future antichrist. This is his public witness with all material and facts of history available to him (if he wants to google in 15 minutes to find this available material).

    18) himself not being able to go to Wallmart for fear of sinning, yet laying on big burdens on everyone else
    A. Spelled Walmart wrong. I think it shows ignorance on your part if you believe that Walmart can offer such low prices without hurting someone in the supply chain.
    @@ I think what ????????????

    Either they are exploiting the people at the supply end, or during manufacturing, or our local economies... everyone suffers from Walmart. Walmart is not a Christian institution, they are a business, and as such, they have a bottom line. Walmart's bottom line is not to help people, it is to make money! If you do any reading on the subject, you will be more wary of what you purchase from big box stores. I didn't know that Paul Washer was anti-Walmart, but knowing that he was a missionary in a poor country like Peru, it makes sense. Walmart hurts poor people, not just abroad, but also here in the states.

    @@ You completely miss the point, not only mine, but also the point Mr. Washer tried to make.

    19) printing his own material as though it is manna from heaven, yet is only copying a little text everyone knows with some questions.
    A. I got a couple issues of the HeartCry newsletter, they were ok, nothing to write home about. I think this is a standard practice for most ministries. As far as I know Paul Washer hasn't written any books yet. If you want to take aim at some people who should be roasted over the coals for their 'printing' of materials that are contrary to the Gospel, you could always take aim at Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, TD Jakes, Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland etc.

    @@ Go and read his material on Gods Attributes ! It is very sad to see exactly a Washerclone reply, idolising Washer, talking as Washer, defending Washer against the indefensible, and attacking opposition NOT with truth, but with petty ignorant personal remarks that are like little mice that can be blown away by a bazooka.

    20) saying he serves the God of heaven, yet he himself is an idolater of the ring on his own finger
    A. Wow, attacking anyone that wears a wedding ring as an idol worshiper. Anyone else on this forum wear a wedding ring? I don't (yet), but I don't think it is an idol any more than any other object or possession can become an idol to a person -I believe that there is scripture that says that the antichrist will forbid people to marry. Just something for an the eschatology inclined to consider.

    @@ Who do you think I am ? A stupid donkey ? Do you really think that I would write this without having sufficient proof ? You really are a comedyshow, Sir ! One small example: at Muscle Scoals every year of marriage is publicly applauded as a birthday ! And I must say, if ever I saw a papist reply, it is here, puffed up, ignorant, big swelling words about his clergyman, and slandering that he does not know.

    21) his minister is Jeff Nobblit who teaches a future antichrist, that gain is godliness, and remains in the SBC although a complete apostate body with a statue for Billy Graham
    A. This guy doesn't like the SBC or Billy Graham, so guilt by association. Even if there are plenty of bible centered, Christ focused Southern Baptist Churches... and if you had actually listened to Mr. Washer preach, you'd realize that he is usually preaching against problems within the Southern Baptist denomination. As for Jeff, I've only heard one of his sermons (the one about dogs, if you know which one I'm referring to), but it was a wonderful sermon with a clear Gospel presentation.

    @@ If Mr. Washer paints himself green, acts as a lunatic on Time Square New York, runs around naked, acts the part of a dog and a human ape on the lawn of the White House, and then says he thereby preaches the Gospel and lives a holy life, you probable still would defend him against all those who would call it what it is.

    22) closing the Kingdom of God for the people by keeping silent about the true contents of the witness of the old paths
    A. Are you talking about Old Path's Magazine, the one that Greg Gordon puts out? I'm just kidding... can you PLEASE BE MORE SPECIFIC!

    @@ I have been specific enough in the replies I have already given. If you are not able to make the proper connections and logical conclusions of yourself, I guess giving you more information would only extra frustrate your caveman mental functions ! So for your and my wellbeing, I have given you enough response and have been specific enough.

    23) denying the true witness of the Waldenses, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters
    A. You know, most of the people that you listed had strong disagreements with each other. You probably couldn't get an English puritan, a Scottish covenanter and a German reformer in the same room without some kind of fist fight over doctrine. These people didn't agree, I bet they wouldn't agree with you either. Although I do like some Puritan theology, and the works of the reformers -no one's theology is perfect, I have yet to find any person in history who had an exclusive claim on inerrancy except the Lord Jesus Christ.

    @@ You show your ignorance and stupidity. The reformers and the puritans both have put out clear statements about their faith, their doctrine, and their practice in the protestant confessions like the Westminsters Standards, and the Dutch confessions. I am sorry, Sir, but you do not know what you are talking about.

    24) denying the true witness of Augustine against Pelagius, Luther against Rome, the Westminster and Dordt Synods
    A. So you're a reformed guy... wait, Paul Washer is a reformed guy too... @_@ i'm so confused! Want to flush this out some more so I can understand?

    @@ Your reply is pathetic, Sir. After 23 clear statements which show that I am a protestant, at point 24 you finally see that I am reformed as in the Reformation. I really do wonder why I give people like you the time of day, as all is available to you and still you dont WANNA see it !

    25) being a facilitator and manipulator replacing the true religion of the King Jesus Christ with a false one of the new world order
    A. New World Order? Are you a conspiracy theorist too? Oh no... I've been trolled. -_- I fail.

    @@ I shall make a simple argument. I hope it will not overkill your one braincell. Alex Jones is known for his site prisonplanet.tv. Alex has a lot of criticism on the government.
    Your president Bush welcomes the pope of Rome with the highest honours in April, Alex has on his site a link calling the Vatican back to its situation before Vatican Council Two, and Mr. Washer and Mr. Nobblit teach a future antichrist. You try and make the connections !

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  7. Hello Ian Smith, my reply with @@, thank you for your response, it gives me a change to defend and explain my position, Kind regards, Dennis.

    You wrote:
    I posted this over at Sermonindex in response, but I might as well post it here also.
    @@ Before I start responding, I would like to paint the bigger picture.
    1. The 10 indictments brought forward by Mr. Washer are the fruits of yearlong going to church, praying (for revival), much evangelising all over the USA, thousands of sermons/ books/ articles/ biblestudies, uttering good intentions, singing in worship, pastoral care by ministers and elders. According to the 10 indictment after all that work the people still do not know God, do not know the Gospel, have bad churchdiscipline, lack teaching on holiness, the church, and practically deny the suffiency of Scripture.
    2. The churches of the 10 indictments range from evangelical, to Lutheran, to baptist, to reformed, to presbyterian. Thousands of ministers, elders, pastoral workers, youthworkers, small groups, writers, professors, Phd's in theology, students in theology, and worshipleaders. According to the 10 indictments after all that work the people still do not know God, do not know the Gospel, have bad churchdiscipline, lack teaching on holiness, the church, and practically deny the suffiency of Scripture.
    3. The so called christianity in the USA is known throughout the world for its hypocrisy, its commercially seeking a profit with christianity, and the people of the USA have indicated that they also have enough of it by choosing the liberal democrat Obama as the follow-up of the 'evangelical' Bush.
    4. The last years I read media on the fruits of christianity in the USA in which the same signs appear as in the Netherlands. Churchattendance dropping, churchattendance getting older and older, churches cannot keep their youth, practical living of those who call themselves christians differs little to nothing with those who are not christians, ignorance of true christianity in doctrine and life rising through the generations, and leadership who do everything to keep the people in in order to keep their monthly paycheck.
    5. In April of this year pope Benedict XVI paid a visit to the USA, and was welcomed with a great feast at the White House by your president Bush and his wife, and more than thousand mostly high level guests. He had meetings with representatives of all other religions, and with those representing the National Council of Churches in the USA, the Lutherans, the pentecostals, the NAE, and some reformed and presbyterians. On the other hand Alex Jones does NOT talk about the influence of the Vatican, but has on its site links to either calling the Vatican back to the situation before Vatican Council II, or calling calvinists and evangelicals with very bad names.
    6. In the USA there are 160.000.000 people who are linked to some kind of church. 67.000.000 of them are roman-catholic.
    7. Remarkable fact is that althought the pope of Rome has visited in April as a 'minister of the Gospel' (seen on television across the USA), 67 million in the USA are roman-catholic, publicly well known figures in evangelical, reformed, and presbyterian circles PUBLICLY either turn to Rome by giving the pope a welcome as a brother, or deny the doctrine of the papal antichrist and teach a future antichrist. This concerns men like the contemporary reformers of monergism (for example Packer, Mohler, MacArthur, Sproul, Piper...), Dr Beeke and Dr. David Murray, and Mr. Nobblit of Muscle Scoals.
    8. Also a remarkable fact is that both the New Geneva Bible edited by Sproul and Packer, the ESV, and the commentary by MacArthur, do NOT teach that the pope of Rome is THE antichrist as the reformers, the puritans, the covenanters, and a brother like Spurgeon taught.
    9. Although Dr. Packer has remained an anglican priest in the Anglican Church openly going back to Rome, being an editor of Christianity Today with links to Billy Graham, being one of the main speakers at Amsterdam 2000 organised by Billy Graham, signer of ECT 1994, promotor of the new age group Renovare and new age bible The Message, he still is considered by monergism as a contemporary reformer and is the main recommendation of the last book Dr. Beeke wrote on the puritans.
    10. The last 20 years all kinds of churches have come together in the USA in ecumenical bodies like the national council of churches, and big names have come together in documents like those of ECT, evangelicals and catholics together.
    11. Mr. Washer's fame came with his shocking youth message in which he publicly makes remarks by which one can conclude he considers Billy Graham his brother. The same Billy Graham that asked Bill Clinton at his last crusade to the stage as his friend, this while the shocking youthmessage by which Mr. Washer has promoted his work until now talks about holiness.
    12. Mr. Washer is connected to Grace Life Church in Muscle Scoals (formerly First Baptist) of Mr. Nobblit. This church has for years remained a part of the SBC, which nowadays is known for its apostacy and arminianism. With also a statue put up by the SBC to commemorate Billy Graham. Mr. Nobblit has PUBLICLY put out messages on Revelation in which he teaches a future antichrist. Mr. Washer knows this.
    13. Mr. Washer regularly has connected himself (in 2008 Deeper conference) with Way of the Master where Kirk Cameron is one of the main hosts. Kirk is known throughout the world as THE actor of the films Left Behind, made in relation to the USA-bestsellerbooks of Left Behind that also teach a future antichrist. Mr. Washer must know this.
    14. In the Netherlands during a tour in May June 2008 Mr. Washer has connected himself to Heartcry.nl of Arjan Baan. Heartcry.nl retains in itself the witness that calvinism is an error and Luther a heretic, and keep on inviting arminian teachers to their conferences and evenings. Heartcry.nl is connected to reformed youthnights where a future antichrist is taught, all winds of teaching is brought with teachers from all false superficial christianity has to offer in the Netherlands, and where one of their greatest teachers teaches that repentance is of man, and rebirth of God. Where also one of the experts of their circles has said that in their midst the most prideful men can be found. Circles PUBLICLY know for their materialism, worldliness, and ignorance of Scriptures. Mr. Washer has presented himself PUBLICLY in 80.000 newspapers smiling as their brother.
    15. In the Netherlands churches are running empty, evangelising does not bare fruit, the churches do not reach anyone according to experts, ecumenical bodies are formed in order to further union with Rome, and this false church (of which Heartcry.nl is an integral and accepted part) is fully part of the world in state, business, schools, and apostate churches. Just a small example: the coming year the evangelical broadcosting company will start bringing programs on death, and for the second time bring publicly the program '40 days without sex' wherin sexcrazed youth will try to remain without sex for 40 days. Amidst of all of this Mr. Washer brings the same message on decisionism, holiness, and marriage as he has done in the USA since 2002 until now.
    16. In the last years in the Netherlands good books on true christianity in doctrine and life have left the lives of those in the churches. Evangelical and reformed bookstores now make their biggest profits selling novels and cards, seeing no market anymore for good books on true christianity.
    17. Mr. Washer has made a remark in his 10 indictment message that in Holland he saw signs of a beginning awakening, this because he saw 1000 young people cry out to God at his Heartcry.nl tour. When one would look at the subjects of the program of Heartcry in 2009 one would see that the subjectmatter is just as shallow and untimely as that of 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, with as much power as watching for months the liveservices on Sunday on sermonaudio.com and expecting something that would break the continuing deadness of shallow subjects.
    18. Although the times are changing fast, churches are running empty, people seem to wanna do their own thing, both the so called ministers in the Netherlands as those in the USA (for example those on sermonaudio. Muscle Scoals, and Mr. Washer) continue to bring the same subjects over and over and over again. For example when one looks at the sermons of Dr. Beeke on sermonaudio.com of the last 3 years, one can hardly find a sermon on Revelation, the judgemtal texts in the Prophets, texts on false prophets and false doctrine.
    19. In discussions both in the Netherlands as on sites in the USA I constantly hear the same cry 'dont judge us', 'dont use polemics', 'be nice to one another', 'your tone is unchristian', 'your words are unchristian', while they themselves publicly confess that their churches are no salting salt anymore, as a sign that all that so called christian behaviour is only cursed by God by making their churches more empty of true christianity each year, and taking away even what they think they had.
    20. Although all these signs are seen by everyone in the world in the PUBLIC media, still those in leaderhip continue to NOT clean house first, but keep on evangelising the outside world, and keep on presenting themselves as the true church and having a calling of God. This although the 10 indictments and the PUBLIC articles on the apostacty of THEIR churches, that God does not bless their work.

    @@ It is understandable in order to keep this bad work going to NEVER look at the big picture, but always bring a one on one message. Forgetting that this one on one message can only keep on being continued when the suggestion is held on to that the own parish is full of non-christians and they are the true preachers. By putting out the 10 indictments Mr. Washer has publicly declared himself and his colleagues in the pulpits as bankrupt and not capable of bringing true christianity from the pulpits, blessed by God as it was in the Reformation ! Now they are glad they can have one convert (for example the new Danish reformer), then they changed whole nations with their message ! Rome is not moved by the message of Mr. Washer, that should say enough.

    Honestly, reading through these 25 indictments... the first thing that pops into my head is, 'If Paul Washer isn't preaching true biblical Christianity, who is?!'
    @@ If I live in a country that is desolated, burned to the ground, full of injured and dead bodies because of the war, little to nothing to eat and drink, and I know where I can find food and drink, where I can find the means to build the country again and make it prosper, ....but I keep that information and those means away from the people so that the situation only gets worse....then I bring out a message how worse everything has gotten and present myself as the saviour of the land (always keeping the good means out of sight by saying for example that every little hint to these means must not get our focus off from looking at how bad the situation is and how much we need my message)....then someone finds out that all the time I have been going around as the saviour of the country, I have known where the good means where to be found....what would he say of me ? Would he not say that I am a criminal and a destroyer of souls and bodies ? If you only know the desolate country, you will call me a very well intentioned man, if you know the good means, I would instantly become a very very bad man.

    I'll respond to them one at a time, although I don't personally think that Paul would need to give this guy the time of day,
    @@ You decide for yourself after reading this reply. You should be happy I give you the time of day, and take the time to warn Mr. Washer so that he might repent of his hypocrisy and false teaching.

    the writer seems more interested in cutting people down than helping them onto the correct path.
    @@ You decide again after reading my replies. May I kindly remind you that Mr. Washer has put out the 10 indictments ? Those 10 indictments (if true) indicate that those who were responsible of leading the people to the correct path, have completely failed. So I personally think that I as an individual nobody who points to back to the Scriptures, the reformed confessions, and the best teachers proven to be blessed by Christ, might perhaps receive a better reception than I now receive in your reply.

    1) willfully limiting the subjectmatter of Scripture
    A. In what way does Paul Washer limit the subject matter of scripture? I have heard him preach from the Old Testament to the New Testament, from Abraham to Revelations. Please be specific.

    @@ Let Mr. Washer come forward with sermons on Revelation 8 to 19, reminding you that Revelation is a part of Scripture, and a minister of the Gospel should preach the whole of Scripture ! Let Mr. Washer come forward with sermons on texts on false teachers and false doctrine ! Let him come forward with sermons on texts in the Prophets which speak about a hypocritical nation and church, and the sins of the land ! Let him show he understands the big picture of Scripture, not that he constantly returns to certain subjects, anecdotes, and punchlines on decisionism, holiness, and marriage ! Most important on this point, is that he has to stand the test of proven teachers appointed by Christ in the past in exposition, message, uprightness, application to the times, and effect on the people in life and doctrine ! Mr. Washer is not the measure of Mr. Washer, and his fans are not the measure of what true christianity is and is not, proven true christianity blessed by God is the measure to test Mr. Washer !

    2) willfully presenting his own fabricated version of true christianity
    A. While listening to Paul Washer preach, I can check my bible to see if it corresponds with what he is preaching
    @@ If I go to kindergarten and listen to a little child present a little story about the heavens at night, I can also say that this little story is true, but that does not mean that this little child is telling the whole story of the heavens. The same goes for Mr. Washer. If looked at by himself, having his words only as a guideline, him viewed implicitly as a true teacher, and his public spiritually beneath this man and ignorant about their bibles (apart from what Mr. Washer allows them to be busied with) and churchhistory), Mr. Washer is a great biblical teacher. When viewed in context of the reality of 2008, the context of 2000 years of true christianity, the whole of Scriptures, Mr. Washer is a worthless teacher that should be avoided.

    -for the most part I find that what Paul Washer preaches is in harmony with the Word of God. Again, please be specific.
    @@ Mr. Washer considers the issue of arminiasm and calvinism not important, and also says that he wants to preach the true Gospel. This contradicts eachother completely. Truth is truth, and cannot exist of 2 completely contradicting systems of doctine, namely arminianism and calvinism. Either the Lord Jesus died for all men, or NOT. Either the saints are elected unconditionally, or NOT, Either man is totally depraved, or NOT. Either Grace is irresistable, or NOT. Either the saints persevere, or NOT. To say that getting the truth out on these subjects is not important, is just like a carmechanic saying that knowledge about the inside of a car is not important to him.
    @@ Mr. Washer has said in the Netherlands that when a christian comes to him complaining about a bad heart and loving sin so much, he doubts whether God has done a work in the life of that person. With this statement he completely goes against the apostle Paul in Romans 7, and there are several confessions of eminent brothers in Christ who have confessed the same (for example Bradford, Calvin, Witsius).
    @@ In the 10 indictment message he says that the remnant is the church. Scripture (Revelation 11v1-2) refutes him, churchhistory refutes him (Waldenses and Rome, Luther and Rome, protestants and Rome, books on the situation of the churches the last 400 years showing a corpus permixtum).
    @@ His remarks about the book of Revelation are very very bad in light of the importance it has had in the Reformation, and the use it has (had) for Gods People in all ages to identify the signs of the times and the struggle of the true church against the false.

    3) willfully bringing himself under a cloak of godliness
    A. He has made the claim in his testimony, maybe not in so many words, that his time as a missionary in Peru had a sanctifying effect on him, he also points to a dorm room experience of crying out to God that helped him to see Jesus more clearly. Although, Paul Washer preaches often that he is a sinner, and continues to sin, I do not think that he is claiming a special holiness or godliness -beyond what is promised to the believer in scripture. Again, please be specific -you know, Martin Luther was specific!

    @@ For me it is very simple. If all this is true about Mr. Washer I should find the same life and message in his preaching, as I find in Scriptures, the reformed confessions, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters, and a beloved brother like Spurgeon. As Mr. Washer has big pretentions about himself and his preaching, I expect to be able to make the connection, instead I find complete enmity between these two in life and doctrine. Mr. Washer has an outward look, but it may not go further than that. The true teachers in the Body Christ have taught the whole of Scripture faithfully, NOT bringing their own ideas, views, anecdotes, and judgements over and over and over again, but bringing the Word of God faithfully. I see no difference in depth, in subjectmatter, between the Paul Washer in 2002 in the shocking youth message, and Paul Washer 2008 in the 10 indictments. Again he talks the same lines about decisionism, holiness, and how bad everything is, putting himself forward as the radical guy. This radical guy should measure himself with Scripture and the old paths, NOT with himself, his friends, and those who flatter him.


    4) willfully closing the book of Revelation and the Prophets
    A. The book of revelations says that is profitable for anyone to read the book and meditate on its contents...

    @@ The Lord Jesus Christ says:
    'Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
    Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.'
    @@ If Mr. Washer does everything to prevent him having to say anything on the book of Revelation, he is taking away from this book, and you may conclude from the texts mentioned how blessed this is. Could this be the reason of the fruit of the 10 indictments ? And how would the message a the papal antichrist be received in a mainly roman-catholic country as Peru ?

    it does not say that we are supposed to conjecture upon their meanings, nor create complex eschatology or 'Left Behind' books.
    @@ Sorry, this is nonsense. Faithful commentaries like Matthew Henry, John Gill, Matthew Poole, Albert Barnes, Diodati, Westminster, Dutch annotations, Durham, Elliot, all have written extensively on the whole book of Revelation. The reason the Reformation started was because in Revelation the harlot church of Rome was discovered. As Mr. Washer connects himself to the Left Behind author (future antichrist in opposition to the Reformation), your words concerning Left Behind loose their meaning.

    I think that Paul Washer is right in taking the emphasis off of what is only conjecture and putting it on the Gospel, the work of Christ on the cross of Calvary.
    @@ You exactly copy the words Mr. Washer speaks on this subject, do you have thoughts of your own on this subject ? By using these words Mr.Washer closes the book of Revelation (see Rev 22v18-19) for his fans. This in complete opposition to the way the Body of Christ has read and loved the certain hope and certain future Christ shows to His People. Instead his fans may endlessly think about their own little world inside their hearts in motives and words.
    This is truly very wrong when a so called teacher does that, leaving out Gods Providence in time, and endlessly leaving christians doubt and busy themselves in their own little world forgetting the bigger picture.

    Mr. Washer said we will know on that last day, everything there is to know about the last day, but we will spend all Eternity trying to fully comprehend what Jesus did on Calvary and never fully know all that he did for us -that is a beautiful picture of heaven, and in keeping with Scripture.
    @@ This is in complete opposition to the Reformation and the faithful commentaries I mention, and most of all against the Lord Jesus Christ himself in Rev 22v18-19. This is truly a false reasoning in order to take away truth and hope from Gods People, in order to have himself put in their place. It is priestcraft.

    5) willfully painting the graves of the prophets for his own selfish ends
    A. We are talking about the same Paul Washer aren't we?

    @@ I want to make something very clear. When first reading your reply you talk as if you really are something in responding to this 'guy'. I stand before a little mouse that talks big words, but I can blow everything away with a bazooka mouse and all. It is sad to see that this false teacher puts himself in the place of Christ, then lets his slaves only hear and know what he wants them to know, these slaves start to act as puffed up as he does, and when confronted with facts and true christianity the true nature shows itself, ignorant and puffed up with only a fabrication of a mortal man who thinks himself a god. The pope of Rome also considers himself the servant of servants, yet is the tyrant of tyrants. Friends will leave friends alone. that is why I am not allowed to see the light of day with this message, as I am not a friend but an enemy.

    @@ Again I stand here with a bazooka against a little mouse who has a big mouth but nothing else. I shall give you a test to prove my point.
    Go and listen to the sermons at Muscle Scoals in 2008, and see how many times names from the past are mentioned like Luther and Spurgeon ! If they are mentioned go and study their lives and works, go and read sermons of them on the same topics, and compare them with Washer and Nobblit. I hope you understand that in order to do this impartially your mind and spirit must be free and unbiased, otherwise because of the prejudice and bias regarding Mr. Washer all investigation will not reason out truth, but will even make Mr. Washer a second Luther or even a second apostle Paul. Showing how humble Mr. Washer and his fans really are.

    6) willfully presenting himself since 2002 with remarks that show Billy Graham to be his brother, although Graham is high in the world and an archdeceiver
    A. I have never been a big fan of Billy Graham, although I was listening to a sermon by him to some missionary candidates given in the 1960's and boy was it on fire!
    @@ The apostacy of Billy Graham has been documented since the 60s in thousands of pages and tens of books. Go and read those ! For Mr. Washer in 2002 to suggest this man to be his brother, is like someone who everywhere says he loves the Lord Jesus Christ, but at the same time says he loves also a denier of Jesus Christ.

    Whether or not Billy Graham is saved or not is an issue of wheat and chaff, leave it up to the angels

    @@ Why do you excuse Billy Graham whose PUBLIC apostacy has been extensively, while you question whether I should be given the time of day seeing that I point to faithful witnesses ?
    Are you mad while at the same time saying you love the Gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ ?

    -but I believe that he has demonstrated more than enough fruit for me as a believer to trust in his testimony.

    @@ Sir, with all due respect, but do you know what you are talking about ? If you even can excuse Billy Graham, who then are the false teachers in this world ? Are Bill Clinton and Bush also christians ?

    I really wonder where you get off being the judge of people's salvation, is that your job?

    @@ With all due respect, Sir, but you should ask Mr. Washer this question as he seems to be able to judge men regenerate and unregenerate.

    ReplyDelete
  8. 7) comparison with the whole of Scripture and the true old paths of the Reformation show him to be a cloud without water
    A. Again, specifics... what did the Church Fathers and Reformers and Puritans say that would clearly demonstrate Paul Washer to be nothing more than a false prophet, a 'cloud without water?'

    @@ Mr. Washer has worked in the missionfield for 20 years fulltime. He has been able to study Scripture fulltime, prepare sermons and biblestudies fulltime, has been all over the USA in churches and bibleschools, and after all those years in 2008 he still brings a shallow message mainly on the topics of decisionism, marriage, and holiness. If you would start reading the reformers, the puritans, and the Church Fathers on being a cloud without water, you would immediately recognize Mr. Washer to be one.

    8) connection in the Netherlands to all false christianity has to offer, even with those who publicly say calvinism is a complete error
    A. Again, I'm not sure what you're talking about... who was he associated with in the Netherlands, what was their false doctrine?

    @@ The director of Heartcry.nl is connected to all that false apostate christianity in evangelical and reformed circles has to offer. He invites arminian preachers, he has a link on his site that says that calvinism is a complete error and Luther a heretic. His translator was and is a regular speaker at THE Dutch megachurch where they teach that man does repentance, God the new birth. I hope I have written clearly enough for you to understand.

    9) presenting himself in 80.000 newspapers in the Netherlands smiling as though the sins of the churches and the land are no problem to him
    A. There are scriptures in Timothy that say a deacon should be above reproach, and have a strong reputation in the community. As Christians we are going to face persecution for our beliefs, but at the same time, other should regard us as stalwart and noble for the same beliefs. Keith Green once said that when Christians were called to suffer persecution, it wasn't a call to be obnoxious.

    @@ First of all I take offence that you use the name of a beloved brother like Keith Green in order to justify Mr. Washer. Secondly if false christianity is trampled by men because it has lost its salt, this is NOT persecution but righteous judgement by God. Thirdly I dont understand what your reply has to do with Mr. Washer presenting himself in 80.000 newspapers as a friend of an apostate organisation linked to superficial false christianity.

    10) proclaiming a message of revival that has never come, thereby telling lies in Gods Name.
    A. Wow, wait, huh! Are you discounting all revivals in history, or the concept of revivals, or just the type of revival that Paul Washer is preaching about? What does the bible have to say about revivals? Are they biblical?

    11) accepting in the core of his message two contradictive systems of doctrine
    A. Again, please be specific, which doctrines and how are they contradictory?

    @@ Arminianism and calvinism are two contradicting systems of doctrine. You investigate for yourself ! However if you dont know this by know, I wonder if you will ever know this.

    12) denying the witness of the Holy Spirit in the Reformation against THE antichrist in Rome
    A. You'll have to point me to this one in Paul's Preaching, don't know where you're getting it. As far as I've heard, Paul comes down pretty hard on Catholic teachings as being false doctrine.

    @@ I say that instead of revival it has brought further devival from the Gospel in doctrine, life, and walking in line with the old paths of Scriptures and the Reformation. Revivalpreachers everywhere talking about revival, but God giving everywhere devival to a situation so bad as the 10 indictments in 2008. Showing thereby to be the false church, as the Church of Christ cannot be conquered by the world and the false church.
    Revivalpreachers also having spoken lies in Gods Name as those revivals never have come, only devival. At home I even have a book by James Fisher who short after the so called revival at Cambuslang writes a book against it as NOT being a work of God with clear truth, being after that in same way as you reply here slandered in his person, and tried to get rid of by puffing up men and using false reasonings.

    @@ If Paul Washer does not teach the doctrine of the papal antichrist, it is like saying that Nazi Germany was wrong in their clothing and songs, but leaving out the bit that Hitler and his staff were the main evilgeniuses behind it all. In light of the Reformation, the Dark Middle Ages, and the Inquisition, I am really asking myself if you know what you are talking about. Proving again that Mr. Washer does not know what he is talking about. As if someone really condemns the clothing of the Nazis, but when one says that the nazis have already done the Holocaust with millions of Jews dead, saying that we should not look at history because we might be prevented doing our work today, saying at the same time that you expect that Hitler and a Third Reich are still to come.

    13) denying the blood of hunderthousands christian brothers and sisters against THE antichrist in Rome
    A. According to your eschatology Rome is the AntiChrist, but the way I read it, it could very easily be that the United States is Babylon. Frankly speaking, the book of Revelations isn't so clear on the topic.

    @@ I am sorry, Sir, but the reformers, the puritans, the covenanters, and Spurgeon were VERY VERY CLEAR on this topic. So please, Sir, stop making a fool of yourself and show that you have a brain of your own instead of a bad copy of that of Mr. Washer !

    As far as martyrs go, I haven't ever heard him dismiss their testimonies -you're going to have to point me to some youtube video on this one.

    @@ You really do not understand what are the issues here. Nor do you understand what you are talking about. You swallow whole hords of elephants with Mr. Washer, yet straign my reply at a gnat. I truly wonder if I am not throwing pearls before swines. You show in your replies to be a nicely educated Washerclone.

    14) going around the USA and the world to gain one proselyte that he makes a clone of himself
    A. You know, Paul Washer preaches out of the bible, if anything he wants to get young men and women into the Word of God... sometimes he says things which at face value may seem legalistic, but he is usually saying them in the context of scripture. He preaches on salvation through grace by faith... not exactly a modern day pharisee -there are plenty of more Pharisaical preachers out there whom you could pick on, you may want to take a look in the mirror.
    @@ Sir, if I would enter into a discussion on your reply here I would blow the mouse away with a bazooka. This is really pathetic. Are you really so stupid and easily fooled ? Are you so petty minded that you think so low of your neighbour, and must make such petty remarks regarding my person ? My only reply here is that saying hundred times that you preach the Word of God, does not mean that you do. Nor does having oneself flattered in the face as being a 'true minister of the Gospel' make a person so. Are you so dumb and silly that you believe anything your idol says ?

    15) being silent about the developements in the outside world, only preaching for his own parish
    A. We are talking about Paul Washer, missionary to Peru for a decade, and founder of HeartCry Missionary Society? Plus you spelled developments incorrectly.

    @@ Yes, the same one. I will give only one little example as it becomes more and more clear that I am discussing with a Washeridolater who takes into account his person into judgement, not being able to make a free and independent judgment and investigation.
    The USA suffered the last year and now a great creditcrisis, lots of people loosing their jobs, but Mr. Washer keeps on with his decisionism, marriage, and holiness, as if nothing is going on.

    16) laying burdens on small people, while leaving big names in bibleschools, synods, and gospelmusic untouched and unmentioned
    A. So what you are doing is saying that the sin of a bible college is inherintly more sinful than the sin of a 'nobody' small person.

    @@ Yes, as the sin of backsliding and apostacy in a minister is more sinful than that of Mr. Nobody in church. The more responsibility, the more responsible for the sin and backsliding of the people.

    Please remind me what John the Baptist's message was? Repent! Who was he saying it to? A lot of times, the small people...

    @@ Excuse me, but I have to view your replies as one who serves Mr. Washer with his spirit. I can understand this reply as it would mean that Mr. Washer can remain doing what he does, not having to adress the sins of himself and others in ministies around the USA.

    Jesus didn't go out of his way to preach against the pharisees, but when they attacked him, they made themselves easy targets.

    @@ The more you say, the more you contradict yourself, and show you do not know what you are talking about. The Lord Jesus had his biggest problem with the Pharisees, NOT the world. The reformers had their biggest problem with Rome, NOT the world. Paul Washer has his biggest problem with a false church in the USA, or with the world ? If with a false church, where is the persecution from Rome and its harlotdaughters ?

    Again, this shows your agenda, but not God's! If you want to preach against the evils of these institutions, which I am sure you are doing, feel free, but don't expect the same of others -because they may actually be reading their bibles.

    @@ Sir, Mr. Washer has PUBLICLY put out the 10 indictments. One thing they prove, is that many many in the churches are not reading their bibles (including the leadership).
    After investigating in 2008 Mr. Washer, I have written the 25 indictments against him, which for me make it clear that Mr. Washer says he preaches the Bible, says he loves the Bible, but in reality only reads and loves what is good for his own advantage and image amongst ignorant people who will remain ignorant under his ministry.

    "And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?' How did Jesus respond? "But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." (Luke 9:54-55)

    @@ Sir, may I ask you are you a hypocrite ? You do not understand the bigger picture, you straign the gnat, yet you think you can explain and apply Scripture truthfully ? Do you know what manner of spirit you are ? I come to you as a protestant, yet you do not know whether I am worth the time, yet an apostate as Billy Graham is still seen by you as a christian. Are you a papist ?

    17) connecting himself to Kirk Cameron, know throughout the world for the message of a future antichrist with Left Behind
    A. For someone with an obvious interest in eschatology, you seem to be taking pretty broad swipes here. I guess you're only really interested in your own interpretation of the end times.

    @@ You really think that when you speak, you speak the truth ex cathedra. NO I AM NOT INTERESTED IN MY OWN OPININO OF THE ENDTIMES, THAT IS WHY I HAVE STUDIED THE COMMENTARIES BY BARNES, GILL, HENRY, POOLE, DIODATI, DURHAM, WESTMINSTER, ELLIOT, GENEVA AND MANY MORE FAITHFUL PROTESTANT COMMENTARIES ! You until now show you only know the opinion of Mr. Washer, and you accuse me of what you do yourself ! Are you mad ?

    I myself have never read Left Behind, nor do I intend to waste my time doing so, but I believe Kirk Cameron to be a honest and earnest Evangelist, even if he has gotten himself entangled with the Left Behind garbage.

    @@ Kirk Cameron in 2008, 400 years after the Reformation, has gone all over the world with the message of a future antichrist. This is his public witness with all material and facts of history available to him (if he wants to google in 15 minutes to find this available material).

    18) himself not being able to go to Wallmart for fear of sinning, yet laying on big burdens on everyone else
    A. Spelled Walmart wrong. I think it shows ignorance on your part if you believe that Walmart can offer such low prices without hurting someone in the supply chain.
    @@ I think what ????????????

    Either they are exploiting the people at the supply end, or during manufacturing, or our local economies... everyone suffers from Walmart. Walmart is not a Christian institution, they are a business, and as such, they have a bottom line. Walmart's bottom line is not to help people, it is to make money! If you do any reading on the subject, you will be more wary of what you purchase from big box stores. I didn't know that Paul Washer was anti-Walmart, but knowing that he was a missionary in a poor country like Peru, it makes sense. Walmart hurts poor people, not just abroad, but also here in the states.

    @@ You completely miss the point, not only mine, but also the point Mr. Washer tried to make.

    19) printing his own material as though it is manna from heaven, yet is only copying a little text everyone knows with some questions.
    A. I got a couple issues of the HeartCry newsletter, they were ok, nothing to write home about. I think this is a standard practice for most ministries. As far as I know Paul Washer hasn't written any books yet. If you want to take aim at some people who should be roasted over the coals for their 'printing' of materials that are contrary to the Gospel, you could always take aim at Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, TD Jakes, Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland etc.

    @@ Go and read his material on Gods Attributes ! It is very sad to see exactly a Washerclone reply, idolising Washer, talking as Washer, defending Washer against the indefensible, and attacking opposition NOT with truth, but with petty ignorant personal remarks that are like little mice that can be blown away by a bazooka.

    20) saying he serves the God of heaven, yet he himself is an idolater of the ring on his own finger
    A. Wow, attacking anyone that wears a wedding ring as an idol worshiper. Anyone else on this forum wear a wedding ring? I don't (yet), but I don't think it is an idol any more than any other object or possession can become an idol to a person -I believe that there is scripture that says that the antichrist will forbid people to marry. Just something for an the eschatology inclined to consider.

    @@ Who do you think I am ? A stupid donkey ? Do you really think that I would write this without having sufficient proof ? You really are a comedyshow, Sir ! One small example: at Muscle Scoals every year of marriage is publicly applauded as a birthday ! And I must say, if ever I saw a papist reply, it is here, puffed up, ignorant, big swelling words about his clergyman, and slandering that he does not know.

    21) his minister is Jeff Nobblit who teaches a future antichrist, that gain is godliness, and remains in the SBC although a complete apostate body with a statue for Billy Graham
    A. This guy doesn't like the SBC or Billy Graham, so guilt by association. Even if there are plenty of bible centered, Christ focused Southern Baptist Churches... and if you had actually listened to Mr. Washer preach, you'd realize that he is usually preaching against problems within the Southern Baptist denomination. As for Jeff, I've only heard one of his sermons (the one about dogs, if you know which one I'm referring to), but it was a wonderful sermon with a clear Gospel presentation.

    @@ If Mr. Washer paints himself green, acts as a lunatic on Time Square New York, runs around naked, acts the part of a dog and a human ape on the lawn of the White House, and then says he thereby preaches the Gospel and lives a holy life, you probable still would defend him against all those who would call it what it is.

    22) closing the Kingdom of God for the people by keeping silent about the true contents of the witness of the old paths
    A. Are you talking about Old Path's Magazine, the one that Greg Gordon puts out? I'm just kidding... can you PLEASE BE MORE SPECIFIC!

    @@ I have been specific enough in the replies I have already given. If you are not able to make the proper connections and logical conclusions of yourself, I guess giving you more information would only extra frustrate your caveman mental functions ! So for your and my wellbeing, I have given you enough response and have been specific enough.

    23) denying the true witness of the Waldenses, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters
    A. You know, most of the people that you listed had strong disagreements with each other. You probably couldn't get an English puritan, a Scottish covenanter and a German reformer in the same room without some kind of fist fight over doctrine. These people didn't agree, I bet they wouldn't agree with you either. Although I do like some Puritan theology, and the works of the reformers -no one's theology is perfect, I have yet to find any person in history who had an exclusive claim on inerrancy except the Lord Jesus Christ.

    @@ You show your ignorance and stupidity. The reformers and the puritans both have put out clear statements about their faith, their doctrine, and their practice in the protestant confessions like the Westminsters Standards, and the Dutch confessions. I am sorry, Sir, but you do not know what you are talking about.

    24) denying the true witness of Augustine against Pelagius, Luther against Rome, the Westminster and Dordt Synods
    A. So you're a reformed guy... wait, Paul Washer is a reformed guy too... @_@ i'm so confused! Want to flush this out some more so I can understand?

    @@ Your reply is pathetic, Sir. After 23 clear statements which show that I am a protestant, at point 24 you finally see that I am reformed as in the Reformation. I really do wonder why I give people like you the time of day, as all is available to you and still you dont WANNA see it !

    25) being a facilitator and manipulator replacing the true religion of the King Jesus Christ with a false one of the new world order
    A. New World Order? Are you a conspiracy theorist too? Oh no... I've been trolled. -_- I fail.

    @@ I shall make a simple argument. I hope it will not overkill your one braincell. Alex Jones is known for his site prisonplanet.tv. Alex has a lot of criticism on the government.
    Your president Bush welcomes the pope of Rome with the highest honours in April, Alex has on his site a link calling the Vatican back to its situation before Vatican Council Two, and Mr. Washer and Mr. Nobblit teach a future antichrist. You try and make the connections !

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hello Noiz and Alan Smith,

    My reply I have posted two times so that I am certain you have received it. This reply I also sent to the emailadres of sermonindex with the request to post it as a reply to the comment by Ian.

    My question for now is: Are you going to post my reply ? This so I can show myself to all the world what you think I am. Or will you censure my reply as has happened several times at Youtube, or decide I am not worth the time of day ?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Reformatienl,
    Sorry I didn't approve the comments sooner. for some reason I wasn't being alerted that I had new comments.

    ReplyDelete
  11. to Noiz: No problem, please delete one of the two as both the one of Dennis Grutzmacher as reformatienl are from me, yet both are the same reply.

    I hope with this reply to Ian Smith to have defended my position.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Addition to point 10 as I forgot to respond to that point:

    I have several problems with revivalpreachers.
    - they have gone around the USA and Europe for years brining the message of revival, yet the churches have devivaled big time (see 10 indictments)
    - today's revivalpreachers make no difference in doctrine and life with apostate false christianity, as they can be found in all camps from charismatic catholics to pentecostal charismatics.
    - the revivalmessage is very bad on christian doctrine (for example arminianism and calvinism can go together, catholicism and protestantism can go together).
    - the revivalmessages mainly has its attention because of puffing up of mortal men and the message before and after the performances.
    - the revivalmessages stop at Wesley and Whitefield in churchhistory, while keeping vague or distorting the Reformation as far as it serves their own invented message.
    - At home I have a book by James Fisher on the revival in Cambuslang under Whitefield, it completely refutes this so called revival as from God. The same James Fisher who was connected to the Erskines.
    - In the revivalpreachers today I see men present themself who witnessed a revival in the 50s and the 60s, and because of that can present themselves as Gods messengers. What have these men be doing in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and after 2000 when the churches were apostasising big time (to Rome).

    These are just some points I could mention on this point.

    ReplyDelete
  13. An addition due to recent new information:
    When Mr. Paul Washer connects himself as the main speaker to a tour in another country, presents himself in that country PUBLICLY with the leader of the organising group, and lets himself translate by a certain minister, this is a sign of what he considers to be his brothers and sisters and true christianity.

    In my protest until now I have written that the organising group in the Netherlands is connected to all superficial apostate false christianity has to offer. This because they are an integral part of false reformed christianity, invite bad teachers, and the leader Arjan Baan connects himself through Jijdaar.nl with all sorts of teachers in Dutch false apostate christianity. The leader of the organisation where Paul Washer saw 1000 young people pray that something had to change, had spoken at a youthnight on 8 December, the subject was 'wanted force of arms', please look at the funny animal in front of the stage just before the show of Arjan Baan begins to 'save his souls' !

    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=vwE1ZYIG02Y

    Also I have until now mentioned that the translator of Mr. Washer in the tour in the Netherlands is connected to THE megachurch in the Netherlands, namely www.bethel.nl, and yes, this Sunday he was THE key speaker in the service at that church, where ALL in the Netherlands know people get what they want to hear and see, and the main speaker teaches that repentance is mans work, and regeneration Gods Work.

    Please look at the link 'Bekijk de ochtend- en/of avonddienst', the service of Sunday 21 December with Oscar Lohuis, tranlator of Mr. Washer at his tour in 2008.

    http://www.bethel.nl/index.php

    As Mr. Washer must have had conversations with them, prayers with them (Arjan Baan and Oscar Lohuis), further spiritual fellowship with them, together have been in de situation where they saw 1000 Dutch youth praying something had to change, and Baan and Washer have presented themselves PUBLICLY in 80.000 newspapers in the Netherlands, these are clear signs that these are fruits of the christianity Mr. Washer is about.

    In PUBLIC both Arjan Baan and Oscar Lohuis connect themselves to ALL superficial false christianity has to offer in the Netherlands, and the program of Heartcry.nl in 2009 shows superficiality, untimeliness, and not much sense that revival is needed.

    As a christian who loves uprightness and truth, although not without sin, I must therefore conclude that Mr. Washer is as hypocritical in his religion as those with whom he connects himself, and shows that he has the same fruits in life and doctrine as they do ! Hypocrites love hypocrisy and hypocrites !

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hello Noiz, Ian Smith,

    Are you working on a reply to my reply ?
    Can I expect a refutation and/or clearing of the person Paul Washer from the PUBLIC criticism I have laid before you ?

    Or will it be the old song, that those who without opposition have the greatest pietistic mouths, when opposed suddenly turn as silent as the grave or start slandering the person as they have no defence when opposed ?

    I hope better of you.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Hello,

    If John MacArthur knows what he lays before the world in the Youtube movies 1 to 9 of http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ch3ppf3kgI&feature=related, why do he and his followers not proclaim the pope of Rome to be THE antichrist as the Reformers do ?
    If John MacArthur knows all this, why does he and his colleagues like Mohler, Piper, Packer, Nobblit, Washer, Cameron,.... not proclaim the same ?
    The exposition of Revelation by the Reformers does not give room for the explanation of a future antichrist like John MacArthur does here in movie 9.
    If Nobblit and Washer have MacArthur and Packer in such high esteem, why do they not teach the same on Revelation ? If Nobblit and Washer and MacArthur and Packer have Spurgeon and the puritans in such high esteem, why do they not teach the same on Revelation ?

    ReplyDelete
  16. Hello Ian Smith,

    Are you working on a reply to my reply ?

    Consider my reply here also as a defense of my protest that was sent in at sermonindex !

    Looking forward to reading your reply !

    ReplyDelete
  17. Noiz and Ian,

    reformatienl IS a troller. He's been posting these 25 indictments all over the place, including on my blog... on a post that simply mentioned Washer's name, but had nothing more to do with him. And I had the same problems understanding his indictments as you did.

    Check it out: http://pastordefalco.wordpress.com/2008/10/29/from-providence-to-ptl-to-woodstock/#comment-275

    I wouldn't bother responding to him. Just because he says he's reformed doesn't mean he is. Heck, Fred Phelps claims to be reformed- he even held formal debates defending Calvinism.

    ReplyDelete
  18. The following line of thought consists of point A through M, B following A, C following B etc.... until L following M. Hereby showing the link between Billy Graham, Henry Blackaby, and Paul Washer.
    This as a further proof of the 25 indictments, specially of indictment 6 and 25.

    A. The apostacy of Billy Graham has been documented extensively and has been available to the PUBLIC for years.http://soldierservant.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/billy-graham-apostasy-exposed/http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/graham/general.htmhttp://www.amazon.com/Billy-Graham-His-Friends-Hidden/dp/1891117173

    B, Dr. Henry Blackaby in 2009 will be one of the mainspeakers at the Fresh Encounter Conference with also Anne Graham Lotz and Wil Graham.http://www.blackaby.org/FreshEncounter/

    C. Dr. Henry Blackaby in 2009 teaches at the Billy Graham Training Centre at the Cove of Billy Graham Evangelistic Association (BGEA)http://www.billygraham.org/DMag_Article.asp?ArticleID=850http://www.thecove.org/Assets/Media/2009%20Cove%20Ministry%20Schedule.pdf

    D. Dr. Henry Blackaby has been Honorary Chair of NDP 2006 (National Day of Prayer in the USA.http://www.blackaby.org/ndp.asphttp://kmc.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/1389535/page1/http://www.presidentialprayerteam.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ppt_prayerforamerica&printer_friendly=1http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/05/20060504-2.html

    E. Dr. Henry Blackaby is well known of his leadership training, has written a book on it with Ken Blanchard, who also was key-speaker at Willow Creek Leadershipconference and joined himself to the Secret-message.http://www.audible.com/adbl/site/products/ProductDetail.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0135091836.1231656636@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccckadegegmedjlcefecekjdffidfmf.0&productID=BK_OASI_000103http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Leadership-Moving-People-Agenda/dp/0805418458http://www.kenblanchard.com/http://www.ccn.tv/programming/event/evt_29apr04.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willow_Creek_Association
    http://truediscernment.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/ken-blanchard-joins-the-secret-team/

    F. Paul Washer in his popular 'shocking youth message' 2002 says in minute 37 -38 that 'Billy Graham is one of the kindest, loviest men,....'. This although the apostacy of Billy Graham already in 2002 had been extensively documented (regarding his message, regarding his love for Rome,...). Yet Paul Washer has used this shocking youthmessage to promote himself and be promoted knowing very well what he says in this message regarding Billy Graham.http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8

    G. Both Dr. Henry Blackaby as Paul Washer know the information available on the apostacy of Billy Graham as it has been PUBLICLY available on the internet for years Yet Paul Washer promotes himself with the shocking youthmessage of 2002 with a remark by which everyone will conclude Billy Graham his brother, and Dr. Henry Blackaby teaches at the Cove of BGEA and has a conference in 2009 with members of the Graham-family.

    H. Paul Washer joins Dr. Henry Blackaby as one of the main speakers in Revival Conference 2008 Atlanta.http://revivalconference.eventbrite.com/http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=x_r-bGk8KG8http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ZE8Z_a70s

    I. After the National Day of Prayer in 2006 with Dr. Henry Blackaby as chairman, in 2008 the pope of Rome is welcomed by president Bush as a 'minister of the Gospel' in the White House.http://www.uspapalvisit.org/

    J. Paul Washer is under leadership of his minister Jeff Noblit of Grace Life Baptist Church at Muscle Scoals, so the PUBLIC witness of Paul Washer with Dr. Henry Blackaby is also the PUBLIC witness of Mr. Jeff Noblit as a priest is known by his people.

    K. The remarks of Paul Washer in his 10 indictment message saying the book of Revelation will be clear at the Second Coming, the discussion arminianism calvinism is NOT important, and the church is the remnant, also reflect on his minister Jeff Noblit. The remark on Billy Graham in his shocking youthmessage of 2008, and the current connection between BGEA, Dr. Henry Blackaby, and Paul Washer Dr. Henry Blackaby also reflect on Jeff Noblit.

    L. Paul Washer joins himself to Kirk Cameron, THE actor of the Left Behind Series, of which the book series have been on the top list of sold books.http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2001_Jan_9/ai_68916115

    M. Paul Washer endorses arminian teachers or arminian inclined teachers as Wesley, Finney, and Tozer. As arminianism has been judged by the Bride of Christ as a false gospel in the Synods of Dordt and Westminster (who witnessed Calvinism to be the THE Gospel, as Spurgeon would after them), and the road to Rome. Paul Washer shows where he stand, knowing the persecution of the calvinists by Bishop Laud in former days in England.http://www.apuritansmind.com/Arminianism/AugustusToplady%20RoadToRome.htmhttp://www.answers.com/topic/william-laud

    Conclusions: If Paul Washer in 2008 joins Dr. Henry Blackaby as one of the main speakers at the Revival Conference Atlanta 2008, knowing the PUBLICLY documented apostacy of Billy Graham, knowing Dr. Henry Blackaby teaches at BGEA and has in 2008 a conference with members of the Graham-family,
    it follows:
    - that all his remarks against the message of Billy Graham have been a show
    - his messages on being different from the world, bearing good fruit, and the narrow way, have all been an invention of his own brain, as he joins with Dr. Henry Blackaby in a revival conference 2008 who is loved by the world for his leadership wisdom, bears bad fruit, and is on the broad way of all false christianity has to offer. Thereby also showing that the revivalmessage these men bring is a false message NOT blessed by God, but only by flattery, big words, and puffing up mortal men.
    - his remark about the non-importance of the discussion arminianism calvinism is understandable in light of his own advantage- his connection to Dr. Henry Blackaby in a revivalconference shows that Paul Washer has no discernment between false and true teachers, and therefore is a blind guide
    - as Dr. Blackaby is high in the world (being praised by president Bush, high in management wisdom, many connections with false christianity (for example BGEA, the Graham family, and the NDP), this also shows out of what spirit Mr. Washer is born, as those who are friends and brothers will join in prayers and activities.
    - the remarks Paul Washer makes against the Roman Catholic Church are only a show, as Dr. Henry Blackaby prays in 2006 with president Bush, who in 2008 invites the pope of Rome as a 'minister of the Gospel'. Paul Washer joins Dr. Henry Blackaby in 2008 as speaker at the Revival Conference Atlanta.
    - the so called 'calvinism' of Paul Washer and Jeff Noblit is only empty eloquence, because in practice they deny it in its truth and its practical consequences, thereby also denying the Author who gave that Gospel, and all those who have preached, lived, and died that Gospel (for example Spurgeon) !
    - it confirms my conclusion regarding the Dutch connection of Paul Washer in a tour May June 2008, that thereby Paul Washer showed that although in word he calls for true christianity (with his own inventions and words), in practice he denies it by joining with those who ARE false superficial christianity !
    - if Billy Graham is a 33 degree freemason, all who join him (and those who are connected to him) are also suspected. In October 2009 Dr. Henry Blackaby and associate are expected to speak in the Netherlands at a Heartcry.nl conference.http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Misc/billy.ht

    ReplyDelete
  19. Look at Voddie Bauchan ! Speaker at repentance conference 2009 and at BGEA at 2009. Has he not seen the apostacy of Billy Graham, or are they all in for the money for money makes their church and world go round ?

    http://www.anchoredintruth.org/tcc/preachers

    http://www.thecove.org/events.aspx?typeid=1

    ReplyDelete
  20. I have not allowed this gentleman to post this stuff on my site. My reasoning was that I was not going to let him have a bully pulpit to say this stuff.

    I don't agree with all Brother Washer says but do agree with most of it and there are no major disagreements (no doctrinal issues) for me.

    He has all this to say about Paul but then wants to espouse Spurgeon and the rest of the reformers. (who I love) but know that there were some things in their lives that we could pull apart if we wanted to but frankly, I don't have the time for that.

    Yes on my blog I talk about Mars Hill and some other churches and things that I see as not right but I will not attack a man just his teaching in line with the Word of God.

    Blessings to you for your patience

    Jim Wright
    http://www.truthsintheword.com

    ReplyDelete
  21. Hello Noiz,

    Could you please post my reply to the message of Jim Wright ?

    Do you know whether Ian Smith is planning to answer my reply to his one on the 25 indictments ?

    Kind regards,

    Dennis

    ReplyDelete
  22. I have been in e-mail contact with reformatien1 for the last few days. I have saved all the e-mails back and forth.

    I will say that I have posted a post on my blog which sums up my interaction with him.

    Four years ago before I returned to the faith of my youth, if I had talked to him I would have never come back to Christ.

    If you do not believe in totality the Calvinist doctrine then you are a false teacher in his view because Spurgeon said "Calvinism is the gospel."

    I say I don't agree with which I have been called a hypocrite, a liar, a child.

    He goes on to say that true Calvinism is not the Calvinism of Packer, MacArthur, Piper, Beeke.

    He also says that I am hypocritical when denying Calvinism because there are those in history who were 100% Calvinists (including Calvin) yet Spurgeon and Calvin disagreed in many areas.

    I am neither an Armenian nor a Calvinist yet take my views from both camps.

    I still believe in the main doctrines of Christianity. The Trinity, The Virgin Birth, The death and resurrection of Christ, Grace.

    I will not debate anyone who chooses to call names as a means of debate.

    I can take the heat of debate. I will not be bullied as I don't believe that is the way Christ would have dealt with differences.

    I have many friends who are Calvinists and consider them brothers. None have ever dealt with me such as Dennis has.

    I have chosen not to have any more contact with him.

    Regards

    Jim Wright

    http://www.truthsintheword.com

    ReplyDelete
  23. As a response to the reply of Jim:

    1. Jim believes 2 of the 5 points of the TULIP are not biblical. This although Westminster Assembly, Dordt Assembly, and a beloved brother like Spurgeon, said they were. And even 100% arminians know that if one point of TULIP is taken down, the whole system falls. So it is either believing the whole TULIP or nothing of it.

    2. Jim describes my way of debating as calling names. Yet he asks me to take his word just because Jim says so, this I refuse completely.

    3. Jim also forgets to mention what he himself has said in the correspondence we had. I could give easily 10 statements of Jim that he made that are pure slander and lies regarding my person. To paint my person the way he does, knowing the reasons why I have responded and defended my position, is unfair and biased.

    4. Yes, I use termes like liar, hypocrite, and childish. This because when someone tells an untruth, and keeps on telling it although I have confronted him with the opposite, I call that man a liar, just as I want to be called a liar when I lie so I can repent of my sin. I call someone a hypocrite who first asks me to forgive him for his anger, and after that starts slandering my person in a big way. And after all that puts this message on this board painting himself as Jim the angel. This is unfair dealing.

    5. Yes, I consider the calvinism of Piper, Beeke, MacArthur, and Packer, to be not the true calvinism of Scripture, Westminster, Dordt, and Spurgeon. This because Beeke and Packer are connected through the book on the puritans by Beeke, and Packer is connected to BGEA. MacArthur speaks at BGEA although their magazine for years is called DECISION. And all of them including Piper preach a future antichrist, although the calvinists of the Reformation taught THE papal antichrist.

    6. Jim says that he still believes the cardinal doctrines of christianity. The Roman Catholic pope and clergy do the same. What is the difference if the opposition against the TULIP is the same in the 2 points Jim does not agree ?

    7. Jim says that Calvin and Spurgeon disagreed on many things. This is false reasoning as Spurgeon believed 100% in the TULIP, and in that these beloved brothers were one in Christ.

    8. Jim says that if he had met me he would not have returned to the faith. I point to the KJV, the reformed confessions, and beloved brothers like the Waldenses, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters, and Spurgeon.

    9. As an example of what I consider christian behaviour, becoming like a child, I have given him these two youtube videos, showing that even the world understands humility from pride, and genuiness from hypocrisy ! Churches with 10 indictments as their fruits, and Obama for their president, have to look to themselves because the world could be very right when it opposes these kinds of hypocrites, liars, and childish grown ups who like to tell others what christianity is, but when a little child comes who knows more than them, they bully him out of doors !

    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QWNoiVrJDsE http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=-hhOXu-wSoc

    10. I do not understand how someone who says he is a christian, says he knows that in himself he deserves hell, knows that all is by Grace, starts calling names and slandering because the one that opposes him does not give him what he wants to hear. It shows me that all that nice talking amongst eachother is only flattery, because when tested another face appears. Christians have only one face, hypocrites have two !

    Lastly, Noiz could you post my message before this one ?

    This is my defence of my name.

    Dennis

    ReplyDelete
  24. reformatienl,
    I do not have your reply to submit. Maybe repost it then I'll post your final response after.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Hello Noiz,

    Unfortunately I did not save my reply to somewhere else before I posted it on your blog.

    As my final response in this current discussion I will respond to some statements made by Jim to which I have not responded yet. After that I will give 14 quotations from the mails I received from Jim with a response added to it. This because Jim writes about me calling him a liar, hypocrite, and child.

    Jim wrote:
    'If you do not believe in totality the Calvinist doctrine then you are a false teacher in his view because Spurgeon said "Calvinism is the gospel."'

    my reply: I have received the Gospel that contains the TULIP, I believe in that 100% because it is according to my christian experience, according to my personal study in Scriptures, and have found this Gospel in the best of the best I could find in churchistory (meaning the Waldenses, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters, and Spurgeon).
    For Jim to say 40% of its doctrine is false, means I consider him to be believing a false gospel, and if a teacher a false teacher. This I must say if I want to be true to Scripture (for example Gal 1v6-10, 1Tim 6v3-5, 2 John 9-11). As Jim says he only wants to take Scripture as his guide, I do not understand why he does not understand me calling him a false teacher when I use the Scripture as he says he does.
    The remarks about me believing him to be a false teacher because only Spurgeon said something, is a very immature and childish remark. Not understanding why I use the statement of Spurgeon, nor understanding the great witness of the Bride of Christ that has witnessed to the same.


    Jim wrote:
    'I am neither an Armenian nor a Calvinist yet take my views from both camps.'

    my reply: this is totally contradicting. For either man is totally depraved or not, either election is unconditional or not, either the atonement is limited or not, either the Grace of God is resistable or, either the saints persevere or not. Together with the fact that even 100% armenians know that if one point of the TULIP is taken out, the whole system falls, and the love Paul Washer seems to show for Spurgeon in his 10 indictments message is contradicted because sermonindex puts out message by Dave Hunt saying the calvinism of Spurgeon is a complete error, and Dr. Blackaby joining the Graham family in a conference in 2009 although the magazine of BGEA is Decision, shows me again that I truly ask myself what love is it that on the one hand says it loves the reformers and Spurgeon, yet on the other hand loves the arminian gospel as well ?

    Jim wrote:
    'I will not debate anyone who chooses to call names as a means of debate.' and 'I can take the heat of debate. I will not be bullied as I don't believe that is the way Christ would have dealt with differences.'

    my reply: see quotations of Jim Wright under this part of this reply. To strain the gnat with someone else and swallow the elephant at the same time, is very hypocritical. However I found this common practice with those who say they are neither calvinist nor arminian, or are full arminians, and is the same behaviour as their arminian forefathers at the synod of Dordt.

    JIm wrote:
    'I can take the heat of debate. I will not be bullied as I don't believe that is the way Christ would have dealt with differences'

    my reply: as I have said to him already in our discussion, Jim is full of words that fall apart when tested. The debate Jim likes is a debate where he is adored as the oracle of truth, a debate in which he is opposed and not implicitly believed is not liked by him. Jim talks about Christ and His treating of differences, both Christ and the apostles were very clear about the truth of the Gospel, they did not give in to any one taking down either the Law or the Gospel in its fullness, not against the Pharisees not against false brethren and teacher. Jim asks me to use only the Bible as my guide (which by Gods Grace I hope I do although not without failure and sin), but when I do that he does not like it, and gives his own opinion on what Christ does and does not do, although contradicted by Scripture.

    Jim wrote:
    'I have many friends who are Calvinists and consider them brothers. None have ever dealt with me such as Dennis has'

    my reply: I hereby give Jim Wright full permission to make our emaildiscussion public to let everyone see what the contents of this discussion has been. Also I add that those who call themselves calvinist in these day and age (either at universities or in churches), first of all bare the fruit of the 10 indictments (which Jim confirms as being truthful of the state of the churches in the USA nowadays), and secondly the calvinism they live and preach has no power, while that of the 16th and 17the century changed the world forever. It is therefore no wonder that there is a difference between my replies and those Jim is used to. Also mentioning the denial of so called calvinists nowadays of the doctrine of THE papal antichrist in comparison to the true calvinists of old including Spurgeon.

    Jim wrote:
    'I have chosen not to have any more contact with him.'

    my reply: I ask you to pay special attention to the fact that Jim has chosen not to have contact, NOT me. If Jim cannot take the heat even of this discussion in which his own principles and words are taken to task and not believed implicitly because Jim says so, I dont understand what he has to do bringing the Gospel amongst the prostitutes and taxcollectors or this world as their language is most certainly not that angelic as that of Jims. Perhaps that Jim will tolerate in order to get a convert for himself.

    Hereunder I will quote several quotations of the discussion I have had with Jim. This as a defence of my name and to show that the picture Jim paints is incorrect and biased:

    Jim wrote in our private discussion:

    1. When I read your 25 indictments (did you write that by the way) all I could think was where is the humility. It is rife with pride.
    2. Maybe that is how they do it in the Netherlands but Christians here still have respect for people.
    3. Calvanism IS NOT THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. It is a doctrinal position
    4. So far you have not answered me with anything but personal attacks and Calvinist rhetoric which can be found on any website anywhere. I ask the questions with desire to learn.
    5. I don't mind being challenged at all. I don't like being challenged by cruel, mean, ill spirited people that show know fruit of the Spirit but a desire to brow beat people.
    6. You have a pride and arrogance about Calvinism and Spurgeon unlike I have ever seen.
    7. You are leaning me more towards Arminianism just by the way you are.
    8. This is not about fighting for the faith. You are fighting for Calvinism which is totally different as in my opinion it only has 3 of the 5 points right
    9. Calvinism is not the Gospel as Spurgeon claimed.
    10. I am not the one wasting my time posting on any blog I can find that mentions Paul Washer. I frankly have a life.
    11. You have shown that you may have and I highlight may, have head knowledge but your heart is in a dark place.
    12. You do not show love, compassion or any of the other fruits of the Spirit but disdain for anyone who thinks different from you
    13. I could discuss Calvinistic doctrine such as Preservation of the Saints all day with you but your tone tells me that you are not willing to do that
    14. I will not be conversing anymore but I want you to realize that the way you treat people is appauling and I will not be a party to it.

    To all these statements I have already responded privately to Jim. If Jim wants to make my responses publicly, he has my permission.
    The only reason I quote Jim is in order to defend my name as Jim paints a picture of our discussion that is untrue.

    I dont like flattery, hypocrisy, and curbing the freedom of man's speech because the image I have created of myself is challenged and opposed ! Where Gods Spirit is, is freedom and are the fruits of the Spirit. In churches in these days who bare the fruit of the 10 indictments I dont know what spirit is.

    This is my defence.

    Dennis

    ReplyDelete
  26. small addition: I have not added my responses to the 14 quotations from Jim. If someone wants to know them, please ask Jim as he has full permission to make them public !

    ReplyDelete
  27. I will respond to Dennis’ claims one by one and this is the last time I will respond about him or to him. I have forwarded the e-mails to Robert so he can see them all and so that what I say can be verified.

    1. I don’t believe I ever said that two of three points of TULIP were unbiblical. I believe I said there were two or three points I didn’t agree with. I found it and I said “in my opinion it only has 3 of the 5 points right”
    Also I never said I was 100% Arminian either. If it is a case of all or nothing in his books then I guess it is nothing.


    2. I have never asked him to take my word for anything. I have asked him to consider my point of view but just as I don’t take Spurgeons word, Calvins Word, Paul washers word why would I ask anyone to take my word.

    Acts 17:11 (KJV)
    11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
    See if it lines up with scripture.


    3. No where in my e-mails do I believe I slandered Dennis’ person nor did I lie except for him to twist what I said. That is why Robert received copies of them all. What he calls slander is a response to what he said.

    4. What he considers an untruth is me challenging his Spurgeonism. He quotes Spurgeon’s writings like it is canon of scripture which it is not. Someone who disagrees with you on religious philosophy is not a liar. If you want someone to see your point, as I pointed out to you, you will turn them off the moment you start with the verbal barrage.

    1 Peter 3:15
    But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

    Yes I asked him to forgive me because a previous message to him was done out of love but out of anger. I noticed it and asked him to forgive me for it. I went through that e-mail and nowhere did I even come close to slandering this gentleman. Again the reason for letting Robert see them. I knew that he would respond this way so I have a 3rd party who is impartial that has seen all of the e-mails. And just so you know Dennis, I didn’t even know Robert before coming to this site and challenging your post so he is not a close personal friend although I do like what he has said. So am I a hypocrite. NO. I say what I mean and I mean what I say.

    5. Do you mean the true Calvinism of scripture, the Calvinism of Calvin or the Calvinism of Spurgeon. I am confused. Yes the Calvinists of the Reformation did hold to the papl antichrist.

    I am still trying to see the point here. I know why they believed what they did. I don’t know yet which side of the fence I stand on this yet.

    If I take the Reformers side then I have locked myself into almost a Pharasitical stance on the matter. That is my opinion. With the way things are going in the world I still am not sure.

    6. I will post my statement of faith on my blog today for all to see. Then you will know exactly what I believe. http://www.truthsintheword.com

    7. There are some (read: many) who say that Spurgeon misunderstood Calvin’s teachings and he himself was not a 5 point Calvinist even though he thought he was. There are various websites that can be Googled and I am not going to take the time because Dennis wouldn’t believe it and would deny it one way or the other. They also disagreed on infant baptism as well as a few other points of doctrine.

    8. “Jim says that if he had met me he would not have returned to the faith.” You can point wherever you want but the truth is that if someone tried to bully me like you have tried I would have stayed in my sinful life and because I do not believe in predestination like you do the places you are pointing me to are, at least to me, moot. (except of course the KJV although I am using my Amplified more these days)

    9. And you show lots of humility in your postings ok. (yes that was sarcasm)

    The Church does not have Obama for a President. The United States does. That has nothing to do with the church. (although the full implications are yet to be seen) You have not come as a child. You have come as one who will defend the man Spurgeon and all he writes as the gospel. Spurgeon was a great preacher and evangelist. An eloquent speaker and a theologian of sorts. I give him his dues.

    I also say he was a man. There are and have been many great men with his skills and talents before and since.

    I wonder what Christians did for 1500 years before Calvin. Do you think they didn’t figure this stuff out before Augustine, Calvin and Spurgeon?

    10. I agree. I don’t know how you did that but ok. You can test me all you want but I stand firm in my convictions. I only have one face and it is straight ahead. I didn’t even begin to challenge you because you wouldn’t hear it anyway. Strawman arguments don’t fly and you are full of them sir.

    This is no defense of your name as I didn’t slander your name. I challenged YOUR belief system and you didn’t like it.

    Here is where I stand on the issue.

    I am NOT an Arminian or a Calvinist, I am a born again Christian! Let this be our stand!

    I want to thank the admin here for giving this platform for these thoughts to come forth. This debate has been going on since the beginning of church history and will never end.

    There are those of us who think that it is time to do away with the ‘isms and just be Christians saved by grace.

    Jim Wright

    ReplyDelete
  28. I know I said the last one would be my last post BUT....

    Yes I said all those things and taken out of context they still seem not that bad.

    I will correct one thing. I don't seek converts for myself and when I am sitting with people whether prostitutes, gangbangers, alcoholics, drug addicts, homeless, abused I allow them to speak. They do not have a lot of the same social graces that I do. But I also do not try to ram my big KJV Bible down their throats and quote Spurgeon as gospel

    Maybe Dennis is a much nicer person when face to face but......nah

    Why he put half of those 14 quotes I don't know and the other half I guess strengthen his position.

    The fact that he wants to keep this going is very telling to me. Now I will go because "frankly I do have a life"

    ReplyDelete
  29. reformatienl,

    Quit slandering Paul Washer and go do something for the Kingdom. I myself am Reformed but this is not productive behaviour

    ReplyDelete
  30. To Noiz, Ian Smith, and Jim Wright,

    NOT to keep this discussion going, only to make the picture more complete of where I stand and what my defence is.

    http://repentandbelieve.wordpress.com/2008/11/02/ten-indictments-against-the-modern-church-in-america/


    Henry on Mark 10v13-15

    We must be inquisitive, as children, must learn as children (that is the learning age), and in learning must believe, Oportet discentem credere — A learner must believe. The mind of a child is white paper (tabula rose — a mere blank), you may write upon it what you will; such must our minds be to the pen of the blessed Spirit. Children are under government; so must we be. Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? We must receive the kingdom of God as the child Samuel did, Speak, Lord, for thy
    servant heareth. Little children depend upon their parents' wisdom and care, are carried in their arms, go where they send them, and take what they provide for them; and thus must we receive the kingdom of God, with a humble resignation of ourselves to Jesus Christ, and an easy dependence upon him

    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QWNoiVrJDsE

    ReplyDelete
  31. We know where you stand. It is put on every website that dares to mention Paul Washer's video's (except those of us who have banned you)

    I have read through page after page of your posts to people on other blogs. Most not so nice. You say it is censorship to not allow you to post on my blog (or others who have blocked you) If you want free rein then start your own site. Blogs are free at blogger. I will even send you a free tutorial on how to build traffic.

    Still you quote from man and not scripture.

    I am not attacking your name and nowhere have I. I am attacking your posturing and the way you position yourself.

    You have come out with clear attacks on Paul Washer but sir, what is your position in the Body of Christ? Who's covering are you under, if not Dutch Reformed? Who are you accountable to in your teaching?

    Even Whitfield could have a decent conversation with John Wesley.

    I will be held accountable for every word I personally speak whether online or off. I have a group of believers that I am accountable to and our headship is Christ. If they feel I step out of line they WILL tell me.

    But let me ask you another question....what if you are wrong? Does this list of 10 things have any bearing on salvation......yours, mine or the listeners.

    Presumably he was preaching to the choir. He was talking about the state of the American church.

    Here is the list again:

    1. A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture
    2. An ignorance of the character and attributes of God
    3.A failure to address man's malady
    4. An ignorance of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of regeneration
    5. An unbiblical gospel presentation and invitation
    6. An ignorance regarding the nature of the Church
    7. A lack of loving and compassionate church discipline
    8. A silence on separation (holiness)
    9. Psychology and sociology have replaced the Scriptures in regards to the family
    10. A departure from the faith and a devotion to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons (1 Timothy 4:1-16)

    Now sir, specifically which one of these 10 items do you have a problem with as it relates to the American Christian church?

    I will tell you that all 10 run rampant in the Western Church. The main theme is worldliness. Now which ones do you have a problem with?

    One more question if I may, I am a reformed Arminian? Am I saved? Or am I a heretic because I do not believe in TULIP as lined out in Calvinism?

    As you can see, I can become like a little child and ask a lot of questions.

    Did I call you a troll on another site? Absolutely because your posts show a textbook case of what a troll online is.

    So there are my questions to you. I patiently await your answers.

    Jim Wright
    http://www.truthsintheword.com

    ReplyDelete
  32. (Hello Noiz, this is my reply to Jim, posted a second time, perhaps it didn't come through well. Dennis)

    Hello Jim, my reply with @@, Dennis

    You wrote:
    We know where you stand. It is put on every website that dares to mention Paul Washer's video's (except those of us who have banned you)
    @@ Then the goal of my protest is reached again, as it was to make a PUBLIC protest to a PUBLIC message. Now Paul Washer can put out a message on Youtube in which he refutes every point of the 25 I protest against him. This should be no problem to him.

    I have read through page after page of your posts to people on other blogs. Most not so nice.
    @@ Jim, we completely disagree on judging a message by a christian. You judge on the basis of words, I on the basis of content. Even Paul Washer says one needs to look beyond the faulty messenger, and look at the contents. I had rather have a little child or a low class grown up without manners before me telling me my errors and sins in term I dont like, but I know they do it for my good and from an upright heart. Than someone who talks like an angel without judgement nor personal concern, talking only in generalities, using Gods Name in vain, who only likes to paint himself an angel with his words, even while the devil is making a rampage in his church and nation, but that is no care to him after he has made himself look like an angel with words.

    You say it is censorship to not allow you to post on my blog (or others who have blocked you)
    @@ Yes, I do, because the censorship does not come out of a refuting of the contents of the protest based on unbiased research and unbiased knowledge of the present and past, but from not liking the tone and choice of words. Straigning the gnat with me, while swallowing easily provable elephants with oneself !

    If you want free rein then start your own site. Blogs are free at blogger. I will even send you a free tutorial on how to build traffic.
    @@ I already have (had) my own site. If you cannot refute the protest without having to flee to condemning it on the basis of tone and choice of words, and then pointing someone to making their own site, I dont see the difference between someone coming up to a so called preacher who confronts him with a protest he does not like nor can refute, and then saying 'well, why dont you start your own church, but leave us alone to do our own thing according to our own views'.

    Still you quote from man and not scripture.
    @@ Sorry, Jim, you swallow the elephant again and straign the gnat with me !

    I am not attacking your name and nowhere have I.
    @@ Your replies have been clear, Jim, be a man and be accountable for them ! It is YOU who has written these things.

    I am attacking your posturing and the way you position yourself.
    @@ Well, Jim, I will give a little hint how wrong you are. According to the Keirsey test I am INFP.
    http://keirsey.fastsimple.com/keirsey/index.php?stage=type&type=INFP
    If an INFP-er starts protesting as I do, you might wanna consider that something is very wrong, instead of taking the protest down as a politician on technicalities !

    You have come out with clear attacks on Paul Washer but sir, what is your position in the Body of Christ?
    @@ My position in the Body of Christ is a sheep of Christ who follows Christ whereever He wants me to go. My position towards the false church is that of (KJV) Revelation 11v1-2, Revelation 12v6+11, Heb 13v13, and
    Ezekiel 34v9-16 !

    Who's covering are you under, if not Dutch Reformed? Who are you accountable to in your teaching?
    @@ The only covering I can be under is that of Christ Himsefl, I am NO teacher, just a sheep, and I am held accountable for what I protest and live by a brother who knows me more than 10 years.

    Even Whitfield could have a decent conversation with John Wesley.
    @@ If your judgement about what true and false christianity is, does not go further than having a decent conversation, than I really dont know what the difference is between your form of christianity and being
    an honest civilian who has no religion. You mention Whitefield and Wesley, one a calvinist who used self-promotion to make a revival look bigger than it actually was, the other an arminian who condemned calvinism big time.
    Exactly in analogy between Paul Washer with Jeff Noblit on the one hand, and Sermonindex and Dave Hunt on the other !

    I will be held accountable for every word I personally speak whether online or off. I have a group of believers that I am accountable to and our headship is Christ. If they feel I step out of line they WILL tell me.
    @@ It is no problem, Jim, to hope the best of these effords, but this accountability has led you in 2009 to see nothing wrong in the 10-indictment message and to view 2 points of the TULIP as unbiblical.
    This means that your whole view on the other 3 falls down also because the TULIP only stands with all 5 doctrines, and you see nothing wrong with Paul Washer closing the book of Revelation, saying
    the discussion arminianism calvinism is not important (see messages Sermonindex by Dave Hunt on 'what love is this...', and Dr. Blackaby and BGEA), and the remnant being the church (which is clear Romish teaching).
    Looking at your replies, may I suggest that this accountability goes no further than having a decent conversation with one another ?

    But let me ask you another question....what if you are wrong? Does this list of 10 things have any bearing on salvation......yours, mine or the listeners.
    @@ It is absolutely NO problem to say that I am wrong in something when proven that I am wrong. But let us go to the Scriptures, to the best reformed confessions,
    to the best protestant teachers that ever were in history, and let us be measured by them as they most certainly were appointed and blessed by Christ ! Meaning
    the KJV, the Westminster standards, the Dordt Canons, the Belgic Confession, and beloved faithful teachers like Luther, Calvin, Knox, Perkins, Owen, Renwick,
    Cameron, Sibbes, Watson, Manton, Boston, the Erskines, and Spurgeon. These brothers all taught that Salvation is of God ALONE, and from there taught the TULIP !
    To say that you disagree with them, is like saying you can paint better than Picasso although your drawings are no better than children from kindergarten ! And yes I already know
    your basic reply that you dont follow men, but then my question is 'prove these brothers unbiblical in their teaching the Gospel ?'.

    Presumably he was preaching to the choir. He was talking about the state of the American church.

    Here is the list again:

    1. A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture
    2. An ignorance of the character and attributes of God
    3.A failure to address man's malady
    4. An ignorance of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of regeneration
    5. An unbiblical gospel presentation and invitation
    6. An ignorance regarding the nature of the Church
    7. A lack of loving and compassionate church discipline
    8. A silence on separation (holiness)
    9. Psychology and sociology have replaced the Scriptures in regards to the family
    10. A departure from the faith and a devotion to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons (1 Timothy 4:1-16)

    Now sir, specifically which one of these 10 items do you have a problem with as it relates to the American Christian church?
    @@ As a Dutchman I must consider Paul Washer an expert on the situation of the churches in the USA. Several fans of him
    have confirmed his witness as a correct one. But....if Paul Washer tells the truth here (something you confirm also) this does
    NOT recommend his message, but is a complete recognition of the complete failure and curse of God on the work of Paul Washer
    and his colleagues have been doing the last 10 to 20 years in the USA ! For example Jeff Noblit boasts in one of his sermons
    that he has read the Bible for 30.000 hours the last 30 years, but if the fruit of the churches in the USA (including the SBC
    of which Jeff and Paul have been a part a large part of the time) bare these fruits, they are included. To let them go on after
    knowing these fruits, is like someone who completely has ruined a company again appoint to CEO, and then wonder why
    things get even worse ! If you know your Bible somewhat, you must know that the work of the teachers is either blessed
    by God or cursed (Gal 1v6-10), the statements of Paul Washer in the 10 indictment message are very clear !

    I will tell you that all 10 run rampant in the Western Church. The main theme is worldliness. Now which ones do you have a problem with?
    @@ I will try and explain it with the Dutch version of what I just wrote. In the Netherlands the same 10 indictments apply, they are
    even confirmed publicly by those so called ministers who have been in the pulpits for more than 20 years. However somehow they
    dont see this PUBLIC confirmation of these bad fruits as a complete failure of their ministries, NO, they see it as being upright and honest
    that after all those years of work they admit bearing these fruits, and think they can continue as though they were what they think they
    are, namely Gods messengers. If I destroy a home several years, and then admit I have destroyed that home, and after this think
    that I can continue to lead the people of this home (which I have destroyed for years) is completey insane ! But I also know that a people
    get the ministers they deserve !

    One more question if I may, I am a reformed Arminian? Am I saved? Or am I a heretic because I do not believe in TULIP as lined out in Calvinism?
    @@ I think you know the answer better than I do.

    As you can see, I can become like a little child and ask a lot of questions.
    @@ You know as I do, that by the fruit the tree is known. I hope you are not as humble as the pope in Rome, always talking as an angle, while
    all the while doing everything to stop anything that would open the Kingdom of God !

    Did I call you a troll on another site? Absolutely because your posts show a textbook case of what a troll online is.
    @@ You may call me what you want, Jim, I know why I protest, I know what my motives are, and I know that when I am adressed I will
    be the first one to admit I have been wrong. But I am not listening to hypocrisy that straigns the gnat of tone and words, while swallowing
    the elephants of sings of the times and the urgency of this protest in light of the state of the churches ! It is very nice to admit the 10 indictments
    are true, but please look at the subjects and sermons at Muscle Scoals and you will see that all again is in perfect peace, because
    when people in churches have 'a life' they have all they want !

    So there are my questions to you. I patiently await your answers.
    @@ Here they are.

    @@ I compare true christianity to this child:
    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QWNoiVrJDsE

    @@ I compare false christianity (including that of Jeff Noblit and the Dutch connection of Paul Washer) with (including the reaction of the world):
    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=CGosrctwpiU http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=1PQKrr8rF5w&feature=related http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=BRFJzF9k8ik http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QjeJt1v_i-4


    Jim Wright
    http://www.truthsintheword.com

    ReplyDelete
  33. Hello Noiz, could you post this reply one time please ! Thanks ! Dennis

    Hello Jim, my reply with @@, Dennis

    You wrote:
    We know where you stand. It is put on every website that dares to mention Paul Washer's video's (except those of us who have banned you)
    @@ Then the goal of my protest is reached again, as it was to make a PUBLIC protest to a PUBLIC message. Now Paul Washer can put out a message on Youtube in which he refutes every point of the 25 I protest against him. This should be no problem to him.

    I have read through page after page of your posts to people on other blogs. Most not so nice.
    @@ Jim, we completely disagree on judging a message by a christian. You judge on the basis of words, I on the basis of content. Even Paul Washer says one needs to look beyond the faulty messenger, and look at the contents. I had rather have a little child or a low class grown up without manners before me telling me my errors and sins in term I dont like, but I know they do it for my good and from an upright heart. Than someone who talks like an angel without judgement nor personal concern, talking only in generalities, using Gods Name in vain, who only likes to paint himself an angel with his words, even while the devil is making a rampage in his church and nation, but that is no care to him after he has made himself look like an angel with words.

    You say it is censorship to not allow you to post on my blog (or others who have blocked you)
    @@ Yes, I do, because the censorship does not come out of a refuting of the contents of the protest based on unbiased research and unbiased knowledge of the present and past, but from not liking the tone and choice of words. Straigning the gnat with me, while swallowing easily provable elephants with oneself !

    If you want free rein then start your own site. Blogs are free at blogger. I will even send you a free tutorial on how to build traffic.
    @@ I already have (had) my own site. If you cannot refute the protest without having to flee to condemning it on the basis of tone and choice of words, and then pointing someone to making their own site, I dont see the difference between someone coming up to a so called preacher who confronts him with a protest he does not like nor can refute, and then saying 'well, why dont you start your own church, but leave us alone to do our own thing according to our own views'.

    Still you quote from man and not scripture.
    @@ Sorry, Jim, you swallow the elephant again and straign the gnat with me !

    I am not attacking your name and nowhere have I.
    @@ Your replies have been clear, Jim, be a man and be accountable for them ! It is YOU who has written these things.

    I am attacking your posturing and the way you position yourself.
    @@ Well, Jim, I will give a little hint how wrong you are. According to the Keirsey test I am INFP.
    http://keirsey.fastsimple.com/keirsey/index.php?stage=type&type=INFP
    If an INFP-er starts protesting as I do, you might wanna consider that something is very wrong, instead of taking the protest down as a politician on technicalities !

    You have come out with clear attacks on Paul Washer but sir, what is your position in the Body of Christ?
    @@ My position in the Body of Christ is a sheep of Christ who follows Christ whereever He wants me to go. My position towards the false church is that of (KJV) Revelation 11v1-2, Revelation 12v6+11, Heb 13v13, and
    Ezekiel 34v9-16 !

    Who's covering are you under, if not Dutch Reformed? Who are you accountable to in your teaching?
    @@ The only covering I can be under is that of Christ Himsefl, I am NO teacher, just a sheep, and I am held accountable for what I protest and live by a brother who knows me more than 10 years.

    Even Whitfield could have a decent conversation with John Wesley.
    @@ If your judgement about what true and false christianity is, does not go further than having a decent conversation, than I really dont know what the difference is between your form of christianity and being
    an honest civilian who has no religion. You mention Whitefield and Wesley, one a calvinist who used self-promotion to make a revival look bigger than it actually was, the other an arminian who condemned calvinism big time.
    Exactly in analogy between Paul Washer with Jeff Noblit on the one hand, and Sermonindex and Dave Hunt on the other !

    I will be held accountable for every word I personally speak whether online or off. I have a group of believers that I am accountable to and our headship is Christ. If they feel I step out of line they WILL tell me.
    @@ It is no problem, Jim, to hope the best of these effords, but this accountability has led you in 2009 to see nothing wrong in the 10-indictment message and to view 2 points of the TULIP as unbiblical.
    This means that your whole view on the other 3 falls down also because the TULIP only stands with all 5 doctrines, and you see nothing wrong with Paul Washer closing the book of Revelation, saying
    the discussion arminianism calvinism is not important (see messages Sermonindex by Dave Hunt on 'what love is this...', and Dr. Blackaby and BGEA), and the remnant being the church (which is clear Romish teaching).
    Looking at your replies, may I suggest that this accountability goes no further than having a decent conversation with one another ?

    But let me ask you another question....what if you are wrong? Does this list of 10 things have any bearing on salvation......yours, mine or the listeners.
    @@ It is absolutely NO problem to say that I am wrong in something when proven that I am wrong. But let us go to the Scriptures, to the best reformed confessions,
    to the best protestant teachers that ever were in history, and let us be measured by them as they most certainly were appointed and blessed by Christ ! Meaning
    the KJV, the Westminster standards, the Dordt Canons, the Belgic Confession, and beloved faithful teachers like Luther, Calvin, Knox, Perkins, Owen, Renwick,
    Cameron, Sibbes, Watson, Manton, Boston, the Erskines, and Spurgeon. These brothers all taught that Salvation is of God ALONE, and from there taught the TULIP !
    To say that you disagree with them, is like saying you can paint better than Picasso although your drawings are no better than children from kindergarten ! And yes I already know
    your basic reply that you dont follow men, but then my question is 'prove these brothers unbiblical in their teaching the Gospel ?'.

    Presumably he was preaching to the choir. He was talking about the state of the American church.

    Here is the list again:

    1. A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture
    2. An ignorance of the character and attributes of God
    3.A failure to address man's malady
    4. An ignorance of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of regeneration
    5. An unbiblical gospel presentation and invitation
    6. An ignorance regarding the nature of the Church
    7. A lack of loving and compassionate church discipline
    8. A silence on separation (holiness)
    9. Psychology and sociology have replaced the Scriptures in regards to the family
    10. A departure from the faith and a devotion to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons (1 Timothy 4:1-16)

    Now sir, specifically which one of these 10 items do you have a problem with as it relates to the American Christian church?
    @@ As a Dutchman I must consider Paul Washer an expert on the situation of the churches in the USA. Several fans of him
    have confirmed his witness as a correct one. But....if Paul Washer tells the truth here (something you confirm also) this does
    NOT recommend his message, but is a complete recognition of the complete failure and curse of God on the work of Paul Washer
    and his colleagues have been doing the last 10 to 20 years in the USA ! For example Jeff Noblit boasts in one of his sermons
    that he has read the Bible for 30.000 hours the last 30 years, but if the fruit of the churches in the USA (including the SBC
    of which Jeff and Paul have been a part a large part of the time) bare these fruits, they are included. To let them go on after
    knowing these fruits, is like someone who completely has ruined a company again appoint to CEO, and then wonder why
    things get even worse ! If you know your Bible somewhat, you must know that the work of the teachers is either blessed
    by God or cursed (Gal 1v6-10), the statements of Paul Washer in the 10 indictment message are very clear !

    I will tell you that all 10 run rampant in the Western Church. The main theme is worldliness. Now which ones do you have a problem with?
    @@ I will try and explain it with the Dutch version of what I just wrote. In the Netherlands the same 10 indictments apply, they are
    even confirmed publicly by those so called ministers who have been in the pulpits for more than 20 years. However somehow they
    dont see this PUBLIC confirmation of these bad fruits as a complete failure of their ministries, NO, they see it as being upright and honest
    that after all those years of work they admit bearing these fruits, and think they can continue as though they were what they think they
    are, namely Gods messengers. If I destroy a home several years, and then admit I have destroyed that home, and after this think
    that I can continue to lead the people of this home (which I have destroyed for years) is completey insane ! But I also know that a people
    get the ministers they deserve !

    One more question if I may, I am a reformed Arminian? Am I saved? Or am I a heretic because I do not believe in TULIP as lined out in Calvinism?
    @@ I think you know the answer better than I do.

    As you can see, I can become like a little child and ask a lot of questions.
    @@ You know as I do, that by the fruit the tree is known. I hope you are not as humble as the pope in Rome, always talking as an angle, while
    all the while doing everything to stop anything that would open the Kingdom of God !

    Did I call you a troll on another site? Absolutely because your posts show a textbook case of what a troll online is.
    @@ You may call me what you want, Jim, I know why I protest, I know what my motives are, and I know that when I am adressed I will
    be the first one to admit I have been wrong. But I am not listening to hypocrisy that straigns the gnat of tone and words, while swallowing
    the elephants of sings of the times and the urgency of this protest in light of the state of the churches ! It is very nice to admit the 10 indictments
    are true, but please look at the subjects and sermons at Muscle Scoals and you will see that all again is in perfect peace, because
    when people in churches have 'a life' they have all they want !

    So there are my questions to you. I patiently await your answers.
    @@ Here they are.

    @@ I compare true christianity to this child:
    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QWNoiVrJDsE

    @@ I compare false christianity (including that of Jeff Noblit and the Dutch connection of Paul Washer) with (including the reaction of the world):
    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=CGosrctwpiU http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=1PQKrr8rF5w&feature=related http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=BRFJzF9k8ik http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QjeJt1v_i-4


    Jim Wright
    http://www.truthsintheword.com

    ReplyDelete
  34. To blackreformingkid:

    You wrote:
    Quit slandering Paul Washer
    @@ Slander according to Webster 1828 means:
    SLA'NDER, n.

    1. A false tale or report maliciously uttered. and tending to injure the reputation of another by lessening him in the esteem of his fellow citizens, by exposing min to impeachment and punishment, or by impairing his means of lining; defamation. Slander, that worst of poisons, ever finds an easy entrance to ignoble minds.

    2 Disgrace; reproach; disreputation; ill name.

    SLA'NDER, v.t. To defame; to injure by maliciously uttering a false report respecting one; to tarnish or impair the reputation of one by false tales, maliciously told or propagated.

    @@ First of all all 25 points are written because of PUBLIC proof and confirmation by a witness. Secondly they are based upon an investigation of the PUBLIC appearances of Paul Washer in the Netherlands, the USA, the internet, and his church at Muscle Shoals. Thirdly they were only made PUBLIC when Paul Washer called his 10-indictment message 'historic', was compared to Luther and Spurgeon, and made this message PUBLIC all over the internet.

    and go do something for the Kingdom.
    @@ According to the ten indictments of Paul Washer you should NOT ask me to go and do something for the Kingdom, for it seems that those who had the biggest mouths they were building the Kingdom, actually were breaking it down and were NOT blessed by God in their work, see the fruits of the 10 indictments !

    I myself am Reformed but this is not productive behaviour
    @@ You should NOT say this to me but to the churches of the 10 indictments, in which the reformed of the USA are included ! For someone to say to me he is productive for the Kingdom and shows productive behaviour, while an expert on the churches of the USA has PUBLICLY put out a message with 10 indictments, is exactly the hypocrisy the Lord Jesus Christ condemns in Matthew 7v1-5 !

    @@ Lastly instead of condemning what you do not know, nor understand, nor have investigated with an unbiased mind, you might wanna show some empathy ! I recommend you study KJV Titus 1v13 in its full context, and read the commentaries on it by Gill, Henry, Barnes, and Poole. You might be very surprised !

    @@ Very lastly. It is said that what the heart is full of the mouth speaketh. I am not the one accusing others of slander, price, unproductive behaviour, bad treating of brothers. I am not the one reacting with one-liners one has to believe because so and so said so. I am not the one using Gods Name to flatter everyone who gives me profit ! I am not the one censoring those who do not flatter me !

    ReplyDelete
  35. Hello Noiz,

    Have you received my replies ?

    Kind regards,

    Dennis

    ReplyDelete
  36. Hello Noiz,

    When will you post my replies ?

    Kind regards,

    reformatienl

    ReplyDelete
  37. (Hello Noiz, could you post this reply please as a response to that of Jim ? Kind regards, reformatienl)

    Hello Jim, my reply with @@, Dennis

    You wrote:
    We know where you stand. It is put on every website that dares to mention Paul Washer's video's (except those of us who have banned you)
    @@ Then the goal of my protest is reached again, as it was to make a PUBLIC protest to a PUBLIC message. Now Paul Washer can put out a message on Youtube in which he refutes every point of the 25 I protest against him. This should be no problem to him.

    I have read through page after page of your posts to people on other blogs. Most not so nice.
    @@ Jim, we completely disagree on judging a message by a christian. You judge on the basis of words, I on the basis of content. Even Paul Washer says one needs to look beyond the faulty messenger, and look at the contents. I had rather have a little child or a low class grown up without manners before me telling me my errors and sins in term I dont like, but I know they do it for my good and from an upright heart. Than someone who talks like an angel without judgement nor personal concern, talking only in generalities, using Gods Name in vain, who only likes to paint himself an angel with his words, even while the devil is making a rampage in his church and nation, but that is no care to him after he has made himself look like an angel with words.

    You say it is censorship to not allow you to post on my blog (or others who have blocked you)
    @@ Yes, I do, because the censorship does not come out of a refuting of the contents of the protest based on unbiased research and unbiased knowledge of the present and past, but from not liking the tone and choice of words. Straigning the gnat with me, while swallowing easily provable elephants with oneself !

    If you want free rein then start your own site. Blogs are free at blogger. I will even send you a free tutorial on how to build traffic.
    @@ I already have (had) my own site. If you cannot refute the protest without having to flee to condemning it on the basis of tone and choice of words, and then pointing someone to making their own site, I dont see the difference between someone coming up to a so called preacher who confronts him with a protest he does not like nor can refute, and then saying 'well, why dont you start your own church, but leave us alone to do our own thing according to our own views'.

    Still you quote from man and not scripture.
    @@ Sorry, Jim, you swallow the elephant again and straign the gnat with me !

    I am not attacking your name and nowhere have I.
    @@ Your replies have been clear, Jim, be a man and be accountable for them ! It is YOU who has written these things.

    I am attacking your posturing and the way you position yourself.
    @@ Well, Jim, I will give a little hint how wrong you are. According to the Keirsey test I am INFP.
    http://keirsey.fastsimple.com/keirsey/index.php?stage=type&type=INFP
    If an INFP-er starts protesting as I do, you might wanna consider that something is very wrong, instead of taking the protest down as a politician on technicalities !

    You have come out with clear attacks on Paul Washer but sir, what is your position in the Body of Christ?
    @@ My position in the Body of Christ is a sheep of Christ who follows Christ whereever He wants me to go. My position towards the false church is that of (KJV) Revelation 11v1-2, Revelation 12v6+11, Heb 13v13, and
    Ezekiel 34v9-16 !

    Who's covering are you under, if not Dutch Reformed? Who are you accountable to in your teaching?
    @@ The only covering I can be under is that of Christ Himsefl, I am NO teacher, just a sheep, and I am held accountable for what I protest and live by a brother who knows me more than 10 years.

    Even Whitfield could have a decent conversation with John Wesley.
    @@ If your judgement about what true and false christianity is, does not go further than having a decent conversation, than I really dont know what the difference is between your form of christianity and being
    an honest civilian who has no religion. You mention Whitefield and Wesley, one a calvinist who used self-promotion to make a revival look bigger than it actually was, the other an arminian who condemned calvinism big time.
    Exactly in analogy between Paul Washer with Jeff Noblit on the one hand, and Sermonindex and Dave Hunt on the other !

    I will be held accountable for every word I personally speak whether online or off. I have a group of believers that I am accountable to and our headship is Christ. If they feel I step out of line they WILL tell me.
    @@ It is no problem, Jim, to hope the best of these effords, but this accountability has led you in 2009 to see nothing wrong in the 10-indictment message and to view 2 points of the TULIP as unbiblical.
    This means that your whole view on the other 3 falls down also because the TULIP only stands with all 5 doctrines, and you see nothing wrong with Paul Washer closing the book of Revelation, saying
    the discussion arminianism calvinism is not important (see messages Sermonindex by Dave Hunt on 'what love is this...', and Dr. Blackaby and BGEA), and the remnant being the church (which is clear Romish teaching).
    Looking at your replies, may I suggest that this accountability goes no further than having a decent conversation with one another ?

    But let me ask you another question....what if you are wrong? Does this list of 10 things have any bearing on salvation......yours, mine or the listeners.
    @@ It is absolutely NO problem to say that I am wrong in something when proven that I am wrong. But let us go to the Scriptures, to the best reformed confessions,
    to the best protestant teachers that ever were in history, and let us be measured by them as they most certainly were appointed and blessed by Christ ! Meaning
    the KJV, the Westminster standards, the Dordt Canons, the Belgic Confession, and beloved faithful teachers like Luther, Calvin, Knox, Perkins, Owen, Renwick,
    Cameron, Sibbes, Watson, Manton, Boston, the Erskines, and Spurgeon. These brothers all taught that Salvation is of God ALONE, and from there taught the TULIP !
    To say that you disagree with them, is like saying you can paint better than Picasso although your drawings are no better than children from kindergarten ! And yes I already know
    your basic reply that you dont follow men, but then my question is 'prove these brothers unbiblical in their teaching the Gospel ?'.

    Presumably he was preaching to the choir. He was talking about the state of the American church.

    Here is the list again:

    1. A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture
    2. An ignorance of the character and attributes of God
    3.A failure to address man's malady
    4. An ignorance of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of regeneration
    5. An unbiblical gospel presentation and invitation
    6. An ignorance regarding the nature of the Church
    7. A lack of loving and compassionate church discipline
    8. A silence on separation (holiness)
    9. Psychology and sociology have replaced the Scriptures in regards to the family
    10. A departure from the faith and a devotion to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons (1 Timothy 4:1-16)

    Now sir, specifically which one of these 10 items do you have a problem with as it relates to the American Christian church?
    @@ As a Dutchman I must consider Paul Washer an expert on the situation of the churches in the USA. Several fans of him
    have confirmed his witness as a correct one. But....if Paul Washer tells the truth here (something you confirm also) this does
    NOT recommend his message, but is a complete recognition of the complete failure and curse of God on the work of Paul Washer
    and his colleagues have been doing the last 10 to 20 years in the USA ! For example Jeff Noblit boasts in one of his sermons
    that he has read the Bible for 30.000 hours the last 30 years, but if the fruit of the churches in the USA (including the SBC
    of which Jeff and Paul have been a part a large part of the time) bare these fruits, they are included. To let them go on after
    knowing these fruits, is like someone who completely has ruined a company again appoint to CEO, and then wonder why
    things get even worse ! If you know your Bible somewhat, you must know that the work of the teachers is either blessed
    by God or cursed (Gal 1v6-10), the statements of Paul Washer in the 10 indictment message are very clear !

    I will tell you that all 10 run rampant in the Western Church. The main theme is worldliness. Now which ones do you have a problem with?
    @@ I will try and explain it with the Dutch version of what I just wrote. In the Netherlands the same 10 indictments apply, they are
    even confirmed publicly by those so called ministers who have been in the pulpits for more than 20 years. However somehow they
    dont see this PUBLIC confirmation of these bad fruits as a complete failure of their ministries, NO, they see it as being upright and honest
    that after all those years of work they admit bearing these fruits, and think they can continue as though they were what they think they
    are, namely Gods messengers. If I destroy a home several years, and then admit I have destroyed that home, and after this think
    that I can continue to lead the people of this home (which I have destroyed for years) is completey insane ! But I also know that a people
    get the ministers they deserve !

    One more question if I may, I am a reformed Arminian? Am I saved? Or am I a heretic because I do not believe in TULIP as lined out in Calvinism?
    @@ I think you know the answer better than I do.

    As you can see, I can become like a little child and ask a lot of questions.
    @@ You know as I do, that by the fruit the tree is known. I hope you are not as humble as the pope in Rome, always talking as an angle, while
    all the while doing everything to stop anything that would open the Kingdom of God !

    Did I call you a troll on another site? Absolutely because your posts show a textbook case of what a troll online is.
    @@ You may call me what you want, Jim, I know why I protest, I know what my motives are, and I know that when I am adressed I will
    be the first one to admit I have been wrong. But I am not listening to hypocrisy that straigns the gnat of tone and words, while swallowing
    the elephants of sings of the times and the urgency of this protest in light of the state of the churches ! It is very nice to admit the 10 indictments
    are true, but please look at the subjects and sermons at Muscle Scoals and you will see that all again is in perfect peace, because
    when people in churches have 'a life' they have all they want !

    So there are my questions to you. I patiently await your answers.
    @@ Here they are.

    @@ I compare true christianity to this child:
    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QWNoiVrJDsE

    @@ I compare false christianity (including that of Jeff Noblit and the Dutch connection of Paul Washer) with (including the reaction of the world):
    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=CGosrctwpiU http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=1PQKrr8rF5w&feature=related http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=BRFJzF9k8ik http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QjeJt1v_i-4


    Jim Wright
    http://www.truthsintheword.com

    ReplyDelete
  38. Dennis,

    I will only address one part of your rant because I have replied to the rest ad nauseum

    You can try to tear me down, no problem, I am a big boy. You can attack anyone that disagrees with you again no problem.

    My question was: what specifically do you find wrong with these 10 Indictments? Your answer to that was very telling.

    You went on with a rant about how bad Paul washers Ministry is, It has not produced fruit blah, blah, blah blah, blah

    Yet I will say that you have no idea how much fruit his ministry has produced. There are people who have have been saved through the Ministry of Paul Washer (not because of Paul but possibly in spite of)

    Again you posture with words. You say if the church is in moral decay such as Paul Washer says it is then it is because of Paul Washer and his teaching. This is by far the most ludicrous thing you have said.

    If what he says is true then that same statement could be made for any other minister in any other denomination anywhere that church is declining including yourself, myself and anyone else. Why bother preaching and evangelizing?

    This includes your beloved Spurgeon, Wesley's, Whitfield's etc.

    While we are on the topic of Whitfield and Wesley you used some disparaging remarks against them yet your beloved Spurgeon was kind enough to say they could be Apostles if God was producing more. It seems you and Mr Spurgeon are in disagreement.

    I will ask this question one more time. I am a reformed Arminian? Am I saved? Or am I a heretic because I do not believe in TULIP as lined out in Calvinism?

    Your little dig about "having a life" was funny to me. I did say I wouldn't answer you anymore because I have a life. Unfortunately for you, you do not know what that life consists of.

    I do not follow Dennis nor Spurgeon, nor Calvin, or even Paul Washer.

    I follow Jesus Christ and will continue to do so. I will choose who I listen to. I will separate the wheat from the chaff as far as teachings go.

    I have chosen not to be a legalistic Pharisee like others. There is a freedom in Christ. With that freedom comes responsibility.

    It is easy to sit there in the Netherlands and criticize American Christianity. What about your own country? What are you doing about it?

    If you say complaining on different blogs (over 30 at my last count and those are the ones that would let you on) I would say you are not doing what you should be doing but are doing a great disservice to the Kingdom. It is not a noble purpose sir.

    Make sure YOUR Indictments are true, not just on Paul washer but on ALL of the brothers that you have said things about including myself.

    Now this is my last response. There is no sense pursuing this. You will not change your mind, your attitude or your ways.

    I wish you peace.

    Jim Wright
    http://www.truthsintheword.com

    ReplyDelete
  39. Hello Jim, my reply with @@, reformatienl

    You wrote:
    Dennis,

    I will only address one part of your rant because I have replied to the rest ad nauseum
    @@ According to Webster 1828 ranting means: 'Uttering high sounding words without solid sense; declaiming or preaching with boisterous empty words.' I conclude that you judge my replies as high sounding words without solid sense and boisterous empty words. 'Ad nauseum' signifies that a subject has been discussed extensively, and that everyone involved is tired of that discussion. I conclude you are tired of this discussion.
    As everyone can read for himself, let everyone decide for him or herself what the situation is.

    You can try to tear me down, no problem, I am a big boy. You can attack anyone that disagrees with you again no problem.
    @@ I hope I have not made you cry, Jim, because this reply is very cheap and childish, belonging to a bully at highschool, not to a grown-up who has an intellect of his own. What you say about me is simply not true, I respond to everyline the other writes, I await the response, and I respond again, if someone is against me, fine, but let it be an open and honest discussion about the content, and not about technicalities as the content is not allowed to be adressed. Therefore it is understandable you paint this discussion from my side as 'troll', 'rant', and 'ad nauseum', knowing that those who take no efford to read themselves and go by what they know from you, will not believe a stranger but you !

    My question was: what specifically do you find wrong with these 10 Indictments? Your answer to that was very telling.
    @@ I am glad it was clear. As Paul Washer uses 'we' the ten indictments include his ministry. Having to say that after so many years of work people still do not know God and still do not know the Gospel, is very telling !

    You went on with a rant about how bad Paul washers Ministry is, It has not produced fruit blah, blah, blah blah, blah
    @@ I have given the link with the Dutch connection and its link to all apostate christianity has to offer, including calling calvinism as complete error and Luther a heretic. I have shown you that Sermonindex after the Revival Conference puts out messages by Dave Hunt that say calvinism is a complete error, while Paul Washer said in his 10 indictment message that the discussion arminianism calvinism is not important. I have given you three major mistakes in the 10-indictment message, and I have proven a link between the apostacy of the Graham family, Dr. Blackaby, and Paul Washer.

    Yet I will say that you have no idea how much fruit his ministry has produced.
    @@ The Pharisees also ruled Israel when the Lord Jesus Christ appeared, the Roman Catholic Church also ruled in the dark middle ages and at the time of the reformation under Luther. Jeff Noblit does not dare even to call Rick Warren a false teacher, and Paul Washer is connected to all false christianity has to offer in the Netherlands. When darkness evil teachers abound, Paul Washer is their hero !

    There are people who have have been saved through the Ministry of Paul Washer (not because of Paul but possibly in spite of)
    @@ I have added 25 indictments to the 10 already given by Paul Washer to his and his colleagues ministries in the USA. I have enough proof to back it up, and confirmed by a witness. If these 35 are true, Paul is lying through his teeth and has another agenda than that humble preacherman image he seems to show the world. After 20 years of work he should have gotten into the steps of the old paths long ago, instead he presents himself PUBLICLY with Dr. Blackaby who is linked to the Graham family, of which everyone knows it is arminian.
    If Paul Washer would have loved the Gospel he would not EVER have accepted in the Core of the Gospel lies, NEVER !

    Again you posture with words.
    @@ Dear Jim, first you call me a troll, then that I rant, then that the discussion is on a level ad nauseum. But at the same time in another blog you flatter me as a Dutch reformer (which I have asked you to stop doing this). You seem to have two sides, just like you call yourselves an arminian reformed, which is as impossible as a democratic republican, or a false true minister, or a born again spiritually dead christian, or a grandmamdad.

    You say if the church is in moral decay such as Paul Washer says it is then it is because of Paul Washer and his teaching.
    @@ No, I say that Paul Washer in his 10 indictment message uses himself in the term 'we', therefore the words of Paul Washer, NOT MINE, condemn Paul Washer as the 10 indictments also are applicable, according to HIS words, to himself and his ministry !

    This is by far the most ludicrous thing you have said.
    @@ I am sorry, but I have only stated what Paul Washer has stated in the 10 indictment message about himself when he includes himself in the word 'we'. THESE ARE THE PUBLIC WORDS OF PAUL WASHER HIMSELF ABOUT THE MINISTRIES IN THE USA INCLUDING THAT OF HIMSELF AS HE USES THE WORD 'WE'.

    If what he says is true then that same statement could be made for any other minister in any other denomination anywhere that church is declining including yourself, myself and anyone else.
    @@ If the PUBLIC confession of Paul Washer is true, which you have confirmed, than the 10 indictments apply to ALL ministries in the USA, including that of Paul Washer and yours. May I remind you that I protest against Paul Washer, you, and the Dutch connection of Paul Washer, so that I have gone out of Babylon (KJV Rev 18v4) so that the 10 indictments dont apply to me ?

    Why bother preaching and evangelizing?
    @@ Read the 10 indictments, ask yourself 'Is this the fruit of many years of preaching and evangelizing ?', than this kind of doing things is cursed by God, and instead of YOU (and those included in the 10 indictments) telling others what to do, YOU (and those included in the 10 indictments) should repent first !

    This includes your beloved Spurgeon, Wesley's, Whitfield's etc.
    @@ No, Jim, you make conclusions in order to justify your own nonsense and try and make me look like a troll and a ranter. I have been clear about my view on Spurgeon, and I have also been clear about Wesley and Whitfield. You first say that the 10 indictment message applies to current day American churches, and now you (when it suits you) take my conclusions of the 10 indictment message to history in order for you to make me look bad, while I NEVER made this connection.

    While we are on the topic of Whitfield and Wesley you used some disparaging remarks against them yet your beloved Spurgeon was kind enough to say they could be Apostles if God was producing more. It seems you and Mr Spurgeon are in disagreement.
    @@ Well, dear Jim, if you understood what it means to use your intellect, and to NOT serve a man, you might understand that I view Spurgeon as a brother who brought a Gospel I recognize, but who made some statements I disagree on (like on baptism, and the revival under Wesley and Whitefield). This is called using your brain and intellect, and being a free man to make your own choices about what you do and do not consider true about someone's ministry. You again try to paint me as one you are yourself.

    I will ask this question one more time. I am a reformed Arminian? Am I saved? Or am I a heretic because I do not believe in TULIP as lined out in Calvinism?
    @@ If you truly believe this, that you are a reformed arminian, then you yourself condemn yourself, NOT I ! For if you would be a 100% reformed arminian, you would on the one hand say you believe the Bible to be the Truth, but in the Core of the Gospel you believe total depravity and partial depravity, unconditional election and conditional election, limited atonement and unlimited atonement, irresistable grace and resistable grace, perseverance of the saints and the possibility of the saints not persevering. That is at the same time believing truth and lies, no one in his sane mind can connect this to true christianity in which there only is One Truth ! You condemn yourself with your own words, Jim, not I !

    Your little dig about "having a life" was funny to me. I did say I wouldn't answer you anymore because I have a life. Unfortunately for you, you do not know what that life consists of.
    @@ I guess I have said something true for a grown up man to lower himself so much like you do here in your replies, can only be when he has been confronted by something he cannot counter, but does not want to confess he is been put checkmate ! Shame on you, Jim, this kind of response belongs to a narrowminded bigot who cannot confess he has been put in a corner where he cannot keep his bigotry without making a complete fool of himself to the world !

    I do not follow Dennis nor Spurgeon, nor Calvin, or even Paul Washer.
    @@ Like I said earlier, you follow Jim Wright, having no respect for others opinion for you know best !

    I follow Jesus Christ and will continue to do so. I will choose who I listen to. I will separate the wheat from the chaff as far as teachings go.
    @@ You confirm what I just wrote, you do as Jim Wright thinks best, having a total disrespect for anyone who has another opinion, an impudent man (see Webster 1828, assurance accompanied with a disregard of the opinions of others.).

    I have chosen not to be a legalistic Pharisee like others. There is a freedom in Christ. With that freedom comes responsibility.
    @@ You do as you seem fit in your own eyes, I have warned you, your blood is on yourself, my friend !

    It is easy to sit there in the Netherlands and criticize American Christianity. What about your own country? What are you doing about it?
    @@ Jim, you show by these kinds of replies that you are a stupid donkey who only wants his own way or the highway ! A christian who knows the signs of the times, knows his bible, knows the current situation of the churches, does not respond like this. A heathen under a cloak of godliness does in order to save his own self-righteous image ! I could blow this reply to pieces, but I will not, let others decide how narrowminded and bigotted this is !

    If you say complaining on different blogs (over 30 at my last count and those are the ones that would let you on) I would say you are not doing what you should be doing but are doing a great disservice to the Kingdom. It is not a noble purpose sir.
    @@ I am not impressed, Jim, look at the blessing God has given those whom Paul Washer adressed in the 'we' in his ten indictment message. It is easy, coward, to slander and take down an individual who protests alone and all the while leave the PUBLIC CONFESSED elephants untouched ! The 10 indictment message is PUBLIC, deal with it as it also concerns your ministry as you have confirmed the truth of this message !

    Make sure YOUR Indictments are true, not just on Paul washer but on ALL of the brothers that you have said things about including myself.
    @@ Dont worry about me, worry about yourself ! Take good care you have proof when you use terms like troll, rant, and ad nauseum, while at the same time calling someone a Dutch reformer ! Take also good care that you are not making a PUBLIC fool of yourself by calling yourself an arminian reformed, thereby showing you neither know your bible, know the Gospel, know the old paths, know churchhistory, but are just talking as a fool who likes the attention !

    Now this is my last response. There is no sense pursuing this. You will not change your mind, your attitude or your ways.
    @@ Dont worry about me, worry about yourself ! I know in Whose Footsteps I go, namely of Him and His Flock ! By saying you are a arminian reformed, you are going in the ways of the persecutors !

    I wish you peace.
    @@ You dont, you have two faces again ! Repent of that !

    Jim Wright
    http://www.truthsintheword.com

    ReplyDelete
  40. Hello Jim,

    On your site you write:

    'I wanted to take a moment and thank Shannon L. Ayers from HeartCry Missionary Society in Muscle Shoals for there message and a copy of their letter from Johan Baan from Heartcry Holland. (not affiliated with Heartcry Missionary Society or Brother Paul Washer)

    Your message has been received and I have already decided to do exactly what you had informed me to do.

    I have also passed it on to other Christian Bloggers and organizations that I know so they can be aware of the situation.'

    My question to you (and also Noiz as he probably has received this communication by Heartcry.nl from you) is to post this letter under all discussions I have done regarding the 10 and 25 indictments, this so all who read these discussions will have a full picture of what the situation is. I myself will then respond to that letter and give my response, for I have PUBLICLY laid down my protest, to which all were able to respond, and have responded PUBLICLY to the replies given to my protest to a PUBLIC message by Paul Washer !

    If footballteam A beats B with 10 to zero, team B will only accept articles in the public arena that save their image, forgetting the 10 to zero defeat ! Flatterers like flatterers, wicked men like wicked men, good men like good men, true christians like true christians, false christians like false christians, hypocrites like hypocrites, the upright love the upright, the righteous love the righteous, true ministers love true ministers, false ministers love false ministers !

    reformatienl

    ReplyDelete
  41. That is not a question BUT a demand. It WILL NOT be met by me but I cannot speak for the admin's here.

    If they chose to post it so be it.

    You, Dennis, are on the attack and have been since this started. You have attacked everyone who dares to stand up to you.

    I have stated my position and stand by it. I have not backed down but have with much prayerful consideration decided that I have done all I can do to stand.

    You have called those who dispute you and the words of Dennis, false Christians, hypocrites, false ministers.

    Your words have become clanging cymbals

    1 Corinthians 13

    1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

    Jim Wright

    ReplyDelete
  42. Hello Noiz,

    Jim replied privately to the question I asked, in which he remarks that my goal is the dividing the Body of Christ. To this I have responded to him with the following reply:

    'my goal is to unite the true church of the past that witnessed and lived according to Scripture (the Waldenses, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters, and Spurgeon) with the true church of this day and age ! If that means dividing the false church of this day and age from the true church of this day and age and history, than indeed I seek division namely between the false and true church of Christ ! That is why I talk so much about the issue about THE papal antichrist and arminianism/calvinism because these two issues were important to the true church of old, but NOT to the false church of this day and age !

    The Lord Jesus Christ has only ONE Body that is NOT conquered by the world, nor the devil, nor the flesh, nor the false church ! You are uniting with a false church by saying you are a reformed arminian, just like Paul Washer connects himself to the false church in the Netherlands who is not clear on doctrine and not clear on the papal antichrist !

    You choose where you stand ! I consider it an honour to be treated this way !

    May the Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on you all, and I forgive you for the wrongs you have written about my person and name as you do not know what you are doing nor what you are saying !

    KJV Rev 18v4 Dennis Grutzmacher,Breda, The Netherlands'

    For the record I have absolutely NOTHING to do with hypercalvinism ! The Gospel I cherish changed the world, evangelised the world, and will conquer again when the Millenium starts all over the world bringing in millions to Christ ! Having to go around the world, Europe, and the USA and get after hours of preaching and evangelising one proselyte, is not the fruit of the Gospel I believe in ! The Gospel I have received changed Europe during the Reformation ! A clear difference between the false church (see 10 indictments) and the true church of old to which Luther, Calvin, Knox, the other reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters, and a beloved brother like Spurgeon belonged !

    Kind regards,

    Dennis

    ReplyDelete
  43. Hello Jim, my reply with @@, Dennis

    You wrote:
    That is not a question BUT a demand. It WILL NOT be met by me but I cannot speak for the admin's here.
    @@ A christian is known by his or her fruit, if one who says he is a teacher cannot even confess the truth when it comes to the Gospel (arminian or calvinistic), says he is lies and truth at the same time (a reformed arminian), what will his life be when his confession with words cannot even hold ground when touched and tested ?

    If they chose to post it so be it.

    You, Dennis, are on the attack and have been since this started. You have attacked everyone who dares to stand up to you.
    @@ May I remind you, Jim, that the Bride of Chirst on earth is a MILITANT church ? May I also remind you that in this discussion I mainly attacked you and Ian Smith ? Ian Smith being completely silent after my reply, you at the end saying you are a reformed arminian and still holding strong when it comes to the religious righteousness of the image Jim Wright has of himself.

    I have stated my position and stand by it. I have not backed down but have with much prayerful consideration decided that I have done all I can do to stand.
    @@ Everyone can read this discussion and decide for his or herself. In my opinion you stand defeated in every area. If you cannot even stand in basic points of christianity (arminian or calvinistic), and have to resort to this kind of self-righteous behaviour, I dont understand where the Blessing of God is as the Truth of God conquers !

    You have called those who dispute you and the words of Dennis, false Christians, hypocrites, false ministers.
    @@ No, I have called you and those I have proof of being false christians, hypocrites, and false ministers as they are. You dont like that, so you choose the tactic to paint me black by calling me a troll, a ranter, and the discussion ad nauseum. You now have a justification from Holland that I am divisive, so you can use that to flee from the discussion and safe your face !

    Your words have become clanging cymbals

    1 Corinthians 13

    1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

    @@ At least I have had the courage as an individual christian to stand up for what I believe in and protest against what I see is wrong, and warn my brothers and sisters in Christ !
    @@ The clanging cymbals are those who fall under the ten indictments of Paul Washer as these churches have been so empty clanging that their own people after years of work in 2009 dont know God and dont know the Gospel etc.... ACCORDING TO THE PUBLIC WITNESS OF PAUL WASHER ! You again therefore straign the gnat with me, while you swallow whole hords of elephants of Paul Washer, yourself, and Heartcry.nl ! But I guess that is normal in your two faced false religion, being a reformed arminian !

    Jim Wright

    ReplyDelete
  44. wow and this my friends is how a true Christian reacts.

    I am sorry this has got this far but again I will say.....I have done all I can do to stand, so I stand. (not defeated as there really was not a winner or a loser and I didn't know we were keeping score)

    ReplyDelete
  45. Hello Jim, my reply with ##, Dennis

    You wrote:
    'wow and this my friends is how a true Christian reacts.'
    ## The comparison between a true and a false christian from my point of view:

    a false christian
    - loves truth and lies
    - worships God in his own way
    - hates being judged himself while judging all others, especially their hearts and motives
    - loves telling others what they have to do, but hates being told himself
    - loves all forms of christianity, except the true one, that he hates and can distinguish between all other voices calling themselves christian
    - takes into account titles and the person when judging between truth and lies, between true and false teachers
    - pretends having a heavenly life, but in practice is more attached to the earth than non-christians
    - loves to pray in front of others, and tell others how much he prays
    - loves being flattered by others, and to flatter others, especially when comparing themselves amongst themselves
    - likes to tell others in general terms about heaven, hell, and the last judgement, but in practice himself lives only for the here and now completely forgetting eternity and the signs of the times
    - only talks about evangelising although everywhere in reality their own churches are running empty, talking to strangers to get a radical image, but in church being silent as the grave
    - evangelises others with always general remarks he cannot explain when tested, but having nothing to offer in his own church except generalities and implicit faith in mortal man who use the Name of the Lord in vain
    - has a big mouth in the bible belt surrounded by those who flatter him, but having nothing to say amidst the world being surrounded by none who flatter him
    - remains the same always, in year 1 he talks in generalities and ignorance, in year 10 he talks in generalities and ignorance
    - knows nothing about Prophecy and Revelation nor churchhistory, nor is able to distinguish the Bride of Christ from false church of THE antichrist and its harlotdaughters
    - has two faces, one for religious christian babylon which he loves, and one for the true religion brought by the Lord Jesus Christ and His Bride in history
    - the main mark of his religion is hypocrisy and being motivated by outside and selfish motives, when these fall away, his religion falls away
    - talks much about how we must be careful with tone and words, boasts about his love and carefulness in dealing with others, but when brought to the test suddenly starts showing exactly the face he first condemned.
    - loves his own opinion, loves that others investigate his opinion, loves that others listen to his opinion, loves that others learn from his opinion, seeing he stands on his own shoulders, thinking he is rich yet is poorer as a church rat. Hates to investigate, hates uprightness, hates listening to others except for his own advantage.
    - paints the graves of the prophets for his own advantage, taking only from them what suits his own selfish goals.
    - the false christian I compare to http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=CGosrctwpiU http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=1PQKrr8rF5w&feature=related http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=BRFJzF9k8ik http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QjeJt1v_i-4
    - after years of investigation I know that Heartcry.nl belongs to this kind of false christianity. Paul Washer by joining them, shows whom he considers his friends.


    a true christian
    - loves only the Truth and hates lies
    - worships God as He has commanded
    - loves being judged himself while being careful in judging others who show a willing mind, judges only on content knowing that the judging of the heart and motives only belongs to God
    - loves being told by faithful brethren what he has to do, and lays before others what he thinks is the best way they could choose (giving them the freedom to investigate and choose themselves)
    - loves only the true form of christianity as it showed itself in history in Christ, the apostles, the martyrs, the Waldenses, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish puritans, and Spurgeon.
    - takes NOT into account titles and the person, but ONLY the content and the merit of the cause, when judging between truth and lies, between true and false teachers
    - has a heavenly life, and is loosely attached to his earthly life, longing to be with His Master in heaven
    - prays only privately in his innerchambers, hating the hypocrisy of praying before others to be seen
    - hates being flatterd by others, and hates to flatter himself, only comparing himself and others to Scripture and the old paths
    - loves to tell others in specific terms about heaven, hell, and the last judgement, and in practice lives knowing he is destined for eternity, seeing and understanding the signs of the times
    - cleanses his own church first before starting to evangelise, loving being tested in order to bring forward more proof of the truth and nobleness of the cause he stands for
    - evangelises others as a loving friend who gives good answers when tested, having all to offer in his own church in specifics and true faith in Christ who say the Name of the Lord only with the highest esteem and regard
    - keeps his faith everywhere on earth because Christ keeps him, being a salt amidst the bible belt, and a salt outside of the bible belt, being the same in both situations
    - growns in the knowledge of Christ and God through the years, seeing a change occuring in his love and depth of knowledge from year 1 to year 10
    - knows the general outlines of Prophecy and Revelation and churchhistory, loves to read and learn about it, and is able to distinguish between the Bride of Christ from the false church of THE antichrist and its harlotdaughters
    - has only one face treating others according to their reactions. The willing with compassion and in all carefullness, the obstinate with clear rebukes !
    - the main mark of his religion is uprightness and being motived by the inside and noble motives, his religion being not dependent on outside circumstances nor the opinion of man
    - shows when brought to the test that he remains a true christian, being clear in the difference in treating the willing and the obstinate, always giving clear answers, and tries to be gentle, correct, and careful in all his replies
    - loves to investigate, read, listen, and learn from others, seeing himself as only standing on the shoulders of giants
    - shows a true picture of the witness and lives of his brothers and sisters of the past, even if their example condemns his own, so he must repent !
    - this true christian I compare to: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QWNoiVrJDsE

    Lastly, all who consider themselves 'friends' of those who belong and remain in false christianity, I hope you understand that you will get the same treatment as I when you start investigating them and asking them questions they do not like !

    May the Lord Jesus Christ bless His True Bride, and keep His Sheep from the false church that only has words, but in practice is more bad than the heathen ! It is a great honour to stand for this cause and being treated this way, forgiving all who treat me shamefully because of this protest ! !

    This is no game !

    Dennis

    ReplyDelete
  46. E-mail sent to me from Dennis. The dash before indicates his comment. I answer each one right after. I know I shouldn't have anything to do with him really but the more he keeps sending me e-mails the more I want him to be noticed for what he is doing. (making a fool of himself)The spelling mistakes are his sorry

    I did leave off a link to a video he put on

    Couldn't resist:

    Hello Jim, my reply with ##, Dennis



    ## The comparison between a true and a false christian from my point of view:

    (I am glad this is just his point of view)



    a false christian

    - loves truth and lies

    Maybe, I know I don’t like lies period. I do love the truth though.

    - worships God in his own way

    Nope. There are many ways to worship God but I particularly love to worship Him in song. I worship Him how I am led to worship Him. I can worship Him while talking to a homeless man on the street, while at work, while in the quiet. In fact I tend to always be praying and worshiping.

    - hates being judged himself while judging all others, especially their hearts and motives

    I don’t mind being judged. Doesn’t bother me at all. What I don’t like is being judged by someone’s preconceived idea’s of what my walk of faith should look like. I wonder if I should start smoking stogies like old Chuck Spurgeon. Nah those things will kill me.

    - loves telling others what they have to do, but hates being told himself

    I never tell others what to do. I tell others the way I see it. They don’t have to listen to me. But I certainly don’t continue sending them nasty e-mails after I have been asked to stop.

    - loves all forms of christianity, except the true one, that he hates and can distinguish between all other voices calling themselves christian
    As a good friend of mine says. “Truth is not relative. Only our position to it.” I discern very well all other voices calling themselves Christians. When people try to use my site or someone else’s as a bully pulpit is when I stop listening.

    - takes into account titles and the person when judging between truth and lies, between true and false teachers

    I don’t let titles matter to me much. A pastor puts on his pants one leg at a time just like I do. I have made it this far with really good judgment


    - pretends having a heavenly life, but in practice is more attached to the earth than non-christians

    I don’t pretend anything. I am what I am. I say what I mean. If people don’t like it well……
    I try to be the best person I can possibly be. I can’t be heavenly though as I sin daily. I make mistakes. Now the question is do I wallow in those mistakes or ask God for forgiveness and move on. Do I continue making the same mistakes. In some cases yes in most cases no.

    - loves to pray in front of others, and tell others how much he prays

    How do you know if and when I pray in front of others. In fact most of my prayers are done silently and in secret.


    - loves being flattered by others, and to flatter others, especially when comparing themselves amongst themselves

    OH you must have the wrong guy. Remember I said I say what I think and if anyone likes it or not……

    - likes to tell others in general terms about heaven, hell, and the last judgement, but in practice himself lives only for the here and now completely forgetting eternity and the signs of the times

    Nope not me. I actually am very clear on my views of heaven and hell as well as end times

    - only talks about evangelising although everywhere in reality their own churches are running empty, talking to strangers to get a radical image, but in church being silent as the grave

    You’ve obviously never been to my church. My church is growing and no it is not a mega church. I am in Canada and we have very few of those

    - evangelises others with always general remarks he cannot explain when tested, but having nothing to offer in his own church except generalities and implicit faith in mortal man who use the Name of the Lord in vain
    You don’t know anything about me or my church. I never swear or use the Lord’s name in vain

    - has a big mouth in the bible belt surrounded by those who flatter him, but having nothing to say amidst the world being surrounded by none who flatter him

    I am not in the Bible Belt. In fact I am in a cesspool of people in Toronto Canada. LOL I am out in my community almost daily. Say, when was the last time you invited a homeless person into your home for a hot meal, shelter from the cold and to minister to his needs. When was the last time you ministered to a prostitute male or female, when was the last time you sat up all night with a junkie to help them get through the night? Just wondering.
    I don’t seek kudos or recognition for the things I do. I don’t need mans flattery.

    - remains the same always, in year 1 he talks in generalities and ignorance, in year 10 he talks in generalities and ignorance

    Nope not me. 10 years ago I was running a biker bar. I am far different and have learned a lot. As one of my brethren told me “God is accelerating your learning, I have never seen Christians learn as quickly.” OK admittedly that could be flattery but it made me feel as though God was doing something right

    - knows nothing about Prophecy and Revelation nor churchhistory, nor is able to distinguish the Bride of Christ from false church of THE antichrist and its harlotdaughters

    Again with the can’t distinguish argument. As for all the other stuff, yes I can.

    - has two faces, one for religious christian babylon which he loves, and one for the true religion brought by the Lord Jesus Christ and His Bride in history

    Nope I’m pretty much the same. Notice I am not the one contacting you now but you feeling the need to contact me to prove your point.

    - the main mark of his religion is hypocrisy and being motivated by outside and selfish motives, when these fall away, his religion falls away

    WOW you are pretty sure of yourself. I will say not true

    - talks much about how we must be careful with tone and words, boasts about his love and carefulness in dealing with others, but when brought to the test suddenly starts showing exactly the face he first condemned.
    Not true at all. I just don’t like arrogant blowhards who THINK they have all the answers and feel the need to blast their message over 30 some websites that they don’t own, robbing the owners of precious bandwidth and when challenged immediately go on the attack accusing people of being false Christians, hypocrites, liars etc. In condemning me for anything you condemn yourself.

    - loves his own opinion, loves that others investigate his opinion, loves that others listen to his opinion, loves that others learn from his opinion, seeing he stands on his own shoulders, thinking he is rich yet is poorer as a church rat. Hates to investigate, hates uprightness, hates listening to others except for his own advantage.

    Not true. I do investigate. I read copious (look it up in the dictionary) amounts of material in a day. I digest a lot of information. My opinion only counts for me. If someone likes it great, if not that’s ok too. However in that long rambling paragraph the same could be said about yourself.

    - paints the graves of the prophets for his own advantage, taking only from them what suits his own selfish goals.

    Wow that is poetic. Not true

    Are we done yet?

    ReplyDelete
  47. Hello Jim,

    The message I sent was based on what I have seen in the Netherlands for years now. And was a reply to your mentioning the term 'true christian' in your response. On the basis of that I put down a comparison between a false and a true christian that was ment to be general, NOT specificly ment to be adressed to you.

    You have read it, that is where I stand when it comes to true and false christianity in general terms on the basis of my experience !

    You just do as you seem fit is according to uprightness, truth, and righteousness !

    The fools are those who think they are blessed when all the while their churches are running emtpy, and they clearly only do the 'christianese thing' for their own advantage ! Thinking that the Lord Jesus Christ does not see their hypocrisy in evangelism, worship, and preaching !

    The Dark ages revived with its ignorance and heathenism under a cloak of godliness, in both (then and now) everyone knew the hypocrisy of this kind of false christianity ! Still its self appointed clergy and their monks could not be touched without running the risk of being slandered, excommunicated, or silenced ! Ofcourse in the view of these bad clergy and their monkfans, all who were against them were divisive and not real christians !

    Dennis

    ReplyDelete
  48. Hello Jim, here a description of false christianity to which Heartcry.nl and its friends belong, and also as a response to being a fool or not, Dennis

    Albert Barnes on:
    2 Timothy 3:7-9 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

    550307>2 Timothy 3:7. Ever learning That is, these “silly women;” for so
    the Greek demands. The idea is, that they SEEM to be disciples. They put
    themselves wholly under the care of these professedly religious teachers,
    but they never acquire the true knowledge of the way of salvation.
    And never able to come to the knowledge of the truth They may learn many
    things, but the true nature of religion they do not learn. There are many
    809
    such persons in the world, who, whatever attention they may pay to
    religion, never understand its nature. Many obtain much speculative
    acquaintance with the “doctrines” of Christianity, but never become
    savingly acquainted with the system; many study the constitution and
    government of the church, but remain strangers to practical piety; many
    become familiar with the various philosophical theories of religion, but
    never become truly acquainted with what religion is; and many embrace
    visionary theories, who never show that they are influenced by the spirit of
    the gospel. Nothing is more common than for persons to be very busy and
    active in religion, and even to “learn” many things about it, who still remain
    strangers to the saving power of the gospel.
    <550308>2 Timothy 3:8. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses The
    names of these two men are not elsewhere mentioned in the Bible. They
    are supposed to have been two of the magicians who resisted Moses (Exo.
    7:11, et al.), and who opposed their miracles to those of Moses and Aaron.
    ... The POINT of the remark of the apostle here, is, that they
    resisted Moses by attempting to IMITATE his miracles, thus NEUTRALIZING
    the evidence that he was sent from God. In like manner, the persons here
    referred to, opposed the progress of the gospel by setting up a similar claim
    810
    to that of the apostles; by pretending to have as much authority as they
    had; and by thus neutralizing the claims of the true religion, and leading off
    weak-minded persons from the truth. This is often the most dangerous kind
    of opposition that is made to religion.
    Men of corrupt minds; compare the notes at <540605>1 Timothy 6:5.
    Reprobate concerning the faith So far as the Christian faith is concerned.
    On the word rendered “reprobate,” see the notes at <450128>Romans 1:28; <460927>1
    Corinthians 9:27, rendered “cast-away;” <471305>2 Corinthians 13:5. The margin
    here is, “of no judgment.” The meaning is, that in respect to the Christian
    faith, or the doctrines of religion, their views could not be approved, and
    they were not to be regarded as true teachers of religion.
    <550309>2 Timothy 3:9. But they shall proceed no further There is a certain
    point beyond which they will not be allowed to go. Their folly will become
    manifest, and the world will understand it. The apostle does not say HOW
    FAR these false teachers would be allowed to go, but that they would not
    be suffered always to prosper and prevail. They might be plausible at first,
    and lead many astray; they might, by art and cunning, cover up the real
    character of their system; but there would be a fair development of it, and
    it would be seen to be folly. The apostle here may be understood as
    declaring a general truth in regard to error. It often is so plausible at first,
    that it seems to be true. It wins the hearts of many persons, and leads them
    astray. It flatters them personally, or it flatters them with the hope of a
    better state of things in the church and the world. But the time will
    ALWAYS come when men will see the folly of it. Error will advance only to
    a certain point, when it will be “seen” to be falsehood and folly, and when
    the world will arise and cast it off. In some cases, this point may be slower
    in being reached than in others; but there “is” a point, beyond which error
    will not go. At the reformation under Luther, that point had been reached,
    when the teachings of the great apostasy were seen to be “folly,” and when
    the awakened intellect of the world would allow it to “proceed no farther,”
    and aroused itself and threw it off. In the workings of society, as well as by
    the direct appointment of God, there IS a point beyond which error cannot
    prevail; and hence, there is a certainty that truth will finally triumph.
    For their folly shall be manifest unto all men The world will see and
    understand what they are, and what they teach. By smooth sophistry, and
    cunning arts, they will not be able always to deceive mankind.
    811
    As their’s also was That of Jannes and Jambres. That is, it became manifest
    to all that they could not compete with Moses and Aaron; that their claims
    to the power of working miracles were the mere arts of magicians, and that
    they had set up pretensions which they could not sustain; compare
    <020818>Exodus 8:18,19. In regard to the TIME to which the apostle referred in
    this description, it has already been observed (see the notes at <550301>2
    Timothy 3:1), that it was probably to that great apostasy of the “latter
    days,” which he has described in 2 Thessalonians 2: and 1 Timothy 4: But
    there seems to be no reason to doubt that he had his eye immediately on
    some persons who had appeared then, and who had evinced some of the
    traits which would characterize the great apostasy, and whose conduct
    showed that the great “falling away” had already commenced. In <530207>2
    Thessalonians 2:7, he says that the “mystery of iniquity” was already at
    work, or was even then manifesting itself; and there can be no doubt that
    the apostle saw that there had then commenced what he knew would yet
    grow up into the great defection from the truth. In some persons, at that
    time, who had the form of godliness, but who denied its power; who made
    use of insinuating arts to proselyte the weak and the credulous; who
    endeavor to imitate the true apostles, perhaps by attempting to work
    miracles, as Jannes and Jambres did, he saw the “germ” of what was yet to
    grow up into so gigantic a system of iniquity as to overshadow the world.
    Yet he consoled Timothy with the assurance that there was a point beyond
    which the system of error would not be allowed to go, but where its folly
    must be seen, and where it would be arrested.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Paul Washer says in his recent 10 indictment message about calvinism:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXA5UOkLTyo

    The Lord Jesus Christ is the TRUTH,teaching either total depravity or NOT,unconditional election or NOT,limited atonement or NOT,irresistable grace or NOT,perseverance of the saints or NOT!

    The Flock of Christ of the old paths preached the True Gospel of the TULIP,
    Spurgeon said calvinism is only a nickname of the Gospel.So Paul Washer, who pretends he is a '5 point spurgeonist' (again words of his own making) says in effect 'the Gospel is NOT the issue, regeneration is'.Paul Washer shows himself after many years of ministry a teacher of lies and NOT knowing what he talks about.

    Enclosed material to prove my point.

    Is calling the witness for the True Gospel (= Calvinism) by Spurgeon not important, not a very grave slander of the work and ministry of Spurgeon ? How can a christian utter such slander from the pulpit when he is guided by the Holy Spirit ?

    (remember Billy Graham being a 100% arminian, both Voddie Bauchan and Dr. John MacArthur speaking at The Cove of BGEA in 2008 and 2009, Dr. Henry Blackaby having a conference in 2009 with 2 of the Graham family, and Paul Washer making a very positive remark about Billy Graham in 2002 in his shocking youth message (although the apostacy of BG was then already fully documented), joining Blackaby and Bauchan in conferences as main speaker, and promoting arminians like Wesley and Finney)

    Dennis (reformatienl) (my full name is already known)

    http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_prodinfo.asp?PID=sw101207161558

    http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=13006104515

    http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=7200654949

    http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=12210619222

    http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=12270611407

    http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&subsetCat=&subsetItem=&mediatype=&includekeywords=&keyword=Martin%5ELuther&keyworddesc=Martin+Luther&currsection=sermonsspeaker&AudioOnly=false&SpeakerOnly=true&keywordwithin=bondage

    http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfWXSymuZK4

    http://books.google.com/books?id=hMomIlivjPEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=calvinism+steele&lr=&as_brr=0&hl=nl#PPA11,M1

    http://quotes.pinoybusiness.org/2008/05/20/calvinism-is-the-gospel-a-quote-by-charles-h-spurgeon/

    (according to my investigation Sermonindex had put on Youtube messages by Dave Hunt on 'what love is this...' calling calvinism a complete error, Sermonindex the organiser of the Atlanta Revival Conference 2008 where both Dr. Blackaby and Paul Washer spoke as one of the main speakers. When making this mail, I could not find these messages on youtube anymore. Please contact Sermonindex what happened to them, or if it is correct that I say the messages by Dave Hunt put up by Sermonindex !)

    ReplyDelete
  50. For all, who want to jump to one of the ten indictments I made this list here.
    1. 00:13:17 "A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture."
    2. 00:20:08 "An ignorance of God."
    3. 00:25:58 "A failure to address man’s malady."
    4. 00:34:09 "Ignorance of the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
    5. 00:44:02 "An ignorance of the doctrine of Regeneration."
    6. 01:08:20 "Ignorance regarding the nature of the Church."
    7. 01:23:18 "A lack of loving and compassionate Church discipline."
    8. 01:29:48 "A silence on Separation."
    9. 01:37:09 "Psychology and Sociology have replaced the Scriptures with regards to the family."
    10. 01:46:58 "A lack of discipline."

    God bless you in Christ, the truth

    ReplyDelete
  51. So Paul Washer says that the churches in the USA (of which he is an integral part saying 'we') after years and years of ministry

    practically deny the Scriptures

    are ignorant of God

    failed to adress man's malady

    are ignorant of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

    dont know what regeneration is

    dont know what the nature of the Church is

    lack love from the leadership to the people

    are silent on separation

    the Scriptures regarding the family are replaced by Psychology and Sociology, although the family is the great god the people in the Churches serve above Christ, even in Muscle Shoals and in the subjectmatter by Paul Washer

    and lack discipline



    WHAT CAN PAUL WASHER SAY MORE THAT HE AND HIS COLLEGAES ARE FALSE TEACHERS AND NOT BLESSED BY GOD, having the indictment of Scripture against them that they said Lord Lord, but were and are workers of initquity.........

    And their people are so given over by God to a reprobate mind and power of delusing, that they applaud Paul Washer for giving PUBLICLY their ICHABOD, for who in the world would want to go to these churches with these fruits ?

    Salvation by the confession of the 10 indictments by Paul Washer is not to be found in these churches !

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  52. To be clear about my faith, here is AGAIN my testimony:
    I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for my sins and rose on the third day for my justification. I believe I am a sheep of Christ Who is my Shepherd, my Highpriest, my Prophet, my King, and my God. I believe that I am saved by God ALONE, by Grace ALONE, by Christ ALONE ! I believe that I am totally depraved, unconditionally elected, one of those for whom Christ died, His Grace in my life has proven irresistable, and by His Grace I believe as a feeble saint (although not without sin and daily infirmity) I will persevere until the end. I wish to worship God in Spirit and truth by singing psalms without musical instruments, I dont celebrate so called christian holidays as they are not found in Holy Scripture, and I believe the pope of Rome to be THE antichrist and man of sin predicted by Holy Scripture. I love and cherish the witness, preaching, lives, and even in many cases martyrdom (see the 6000 pages version of John Foxes book of martyrs) of the Waldenses, the Hugenots, the Lollards, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters, and Spurgeon. I believe there is a true and a false church, whereby the false church for 1260 years treads down the true church (KJV Rev 11v1-2) which already has occured in the Dark Ages and the Reformation in the persecution and hatred of the papacy for the true Bride of Christ. Each day I start and end with searching Christ in the Scriptures, and on Sundays I sanctify Gods Holy Day by reading food for my soul by true teachers like the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters, and Spurgeon, as far as they spoke according to Scripture, and having christian fellowship. This is who I am by Gods Grace, and although I fail in many things this is the main focus of my life.

    To Isaiah: this is my last message in this discussion. I have laid down my protest, defended it, defended my person and my name, more I have not to say !

    May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you all with His Truth, His Mercy, and His Reign in your hears and lives, having the Word of God (KJV, Geneva) as your only rule of faith and standard, just as beloved brothers and sisters lived and witnessed to, like the Waldenses, the Hugenots, the Lollards, the reformers, the english puritans, the scottish covenanters, Spurgeon, and all those who professed, profess, and will profess the true religion in spirit and truth, in uprightness and love for the truth, hating hypocrisy and pride and flattery, whose praise is of God and NOT of men, teaching ALL that the Lord Jesus Christ has commanded ! Although on this side of heaven never without sin, infirmities, and weaknesses.

    Dennis

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  53. I won't spend a great deal of time defending people, because that is not generally productive.

    I will say this about Billy Graham. My family knows him very well on a personal level. I may not agree with each and every thing Billy Graham did or does (as can be said about basically anybody). I will tell you that those of use who have been saved by faith on the Lord Jesus Christ will see Billy Graham in heaven.

    God called Graham to a specific ministry, one which he faithfully discharged.

    As to my own salvation, of this I am assured by the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit living within me. I say this only because I'm sure somebody is going to comment that I must be "apostate" myself.

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  54. Denis, I have read your confession.

    I want to say this humbly but truthfully. You are in error. I don't need to and will not address the specifics, because you are already spending regular time in God's word. And in those words of God will be found truth. That Bible specifically addresses the errors you are trapped in.

    But I am going to pray for you. Specifically I am going to pray that God will reveal to you the full truth of His nature. Not only His Holiness, Justice and Wrath, but also His Love and Grace.

    I sincerely ask that anybody else reading this join me in my prayer. Not just for Dennis, but for all of our brothers and sisters who are fixated on a truth twisted by man and Satan's lies rather than truth itself reveled clearly through the Holy Word of God. Sincere prayer for the modern church, a church so mediocre that men like Paul Washer preach messages titled "10 Indictments Against the Modern Church". Messages that generate immediate reaction and argument, rater than true reflection on the sad state of what we have allowed ourselves to become. Humble prayer for ourselves, that we may see our own shortcomings and submit our lives so fully to our Lord that personal tranformation revives the Bride of Christ (us ;-).

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  55. I've heard many sermons by Paul Washer, and I've seen many interviews of him, and I have to say that this is one of the most open, honest men I've ever heard preach. It was one of his sermons that led me to Christ. I was a false professor of Christ, and God used him to bring me to repentance. As he read those words in Matthew 7, "not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.." I was cut to the core, and conviction fell heavy upon me. As I've read the Word, and learned about all the different theological views and church history, I've come to disagree greatly with Brother Paul, but I still thank God for him. I hope that one day he will shake loose from reformed theology and embrace the faith once delivered unto the saints before the reformers were even born.

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